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";s:7:"attribs";a:1:{s:0:"";a:1:{s:7:"version";s:3:"2.0";}}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:1:{s:0:"";a:1:{s:7:"channel";a:1:{i:0;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:61:"
	
	
	
	




















































";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:1:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:16:"WordPress Planet";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"http://planet.wordpress.org/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:8:"language";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2:"en";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:47:"WordPress Planet - http://planet.wordpress.org/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"item";a:50:{i:0;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:26:"Matt: Those Other Lawsuits";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=128223";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:37:"https://ma.tt/2024/10/other-lawsuits/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2707:"<p>It&#8217;s a heavy day, and I&#8217;m sad to write this. Not sure where to start.</p>



<p>In 2022, a lawyer recruited two people who took care of my Mom—an assistant and one of her dozen nurses—to resign and demand a million dollars each, or they would publish horrible things about her in a lawsuit. I refused. The lawsuits were filed. Luckily, the accusations are so sick, twisted, and outrageous that they refute themselves. There&#8217;s some weird sex stuff, and also claims that my Mom is racist. I am sad for whatever mind could even imagine such things. </p>



<p>I won&#8217;t link or quote them because they don&#8217;t deserve that, but the lawsuits have been part of the public record and available to anyone with a web browser since 2022. The lawyer sent them to every major media publication and gossip rag.  You&#8217;re just hearing about them now because any journalist who spent five minutes calling around easily saw how spurious the claims are and didn&#8217;t run with the story. They&#8217;ve been dredged up as part of the smear campaign against me in my battle with Silver Lake and WP Engine.</p>



<p>My advice for any other founder: As you gain wealth this may happen to you with household staff as well. Never settle. It just creates an incentive for more people to make stuff up. Even if it&#8217;s messy, fight the claims in court as I am doing. It&#8217;s the only way to deter people trying to make a quick buck. These cases are common, and the media is used to them.</p>



<p>Now for some good news! I&#8217;m happy to report that since these two people left, my Mom has had no errors in her medication (previously, she had to be hospitalized twice and almost died because of medication errors). She&#8217;s back to the weight she was in her 30s and isn&#8217;t in a wheelchair all the time anymore. She&#8217;s just moved into a new home we&#8217;ve been remodeling together for the past 5 years.  She still has 24/7 RNs, but the new nurses have been fantastic and feel like an extension of our family. We&#8217;re looking forward to celebrating the holidays together with my sister, lifelong family friends like the Ornelas family, Mom&#8217;s four dogs, and some of my fifteen godchildren who live in the area.</p>



<p>I may be wrong or dumb about many other things, but I deeply believe in the sanctity and beauty of every human life, regardless of any background. <a href="https://ma.tt/2024/09/charitable-contributions/">It&#8217;s part of why I give so much back</a>. We are all God&#8217;s creation: these are values my Mother taught me, and I have done my best to uphold them in my life&#8217;s work building open source, WordPress, and Automattic.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 15 Oct 2024 10:30:12 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:1;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:21:"Matt: Response to DHH";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=128140";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:29:"https://ma.tt/2024/10/on-dhh/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2388:"<p>I&#8217;ve taken this post down. I&#8217;ve been attacked so much the past few days; the most <a href="https://ma.tt/2024/10/other-lawsuits/">vicious</a>, personal, hateful words poisoned my brain, and the original version of this post was mean. I am so sorry. I shouldn&#8217;t let this stuff get to me, but it clearly did, and I took it out on DHH, who, while I disagree with him on several points, isn&#8217;t the actual villain in this story: <strong>it&#8217;s WP Engine and Silver Lake</strong>.</p>



<p>A few bullets to his core points:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>The headline &#8220;Automattic is doing open source dirty&#8221; is not fair.</li>



<li>Automattic did not work on a deal with WP Engine for 18+ months because of the GPL, or them using &#8220;WP&#8221; in their name, it was because of their abuse of the WordPress and WooCommerce trademarks. Trademarks must be protected, as evidenced by <a href="https://rubyonrails.org/trademarks">Rails trademark policy</a>.</li>



<li><a href="https://automattic.com/2024/09/25/open-source-trademarks-wp-engine/">Our C&amp;D</a> is about public trademark abuse; <a href="https://wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Cease-and-Desist-Letter-to-Automattic-and-Request-to-Preserve-Documents-Sent.pdf">theirs</a> is about censorship, and doxxes private messages. They have since filed a <a href="https://wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Complaint-WP-Engine-v-Automattic-et-al.pdf">kitchen sink lawsuit</a> that embroils all of WordPress.org.</li>



<li>Updating ACF to <a href="https://wordpress.org/support/plugin/advanced-custom-fields/">Secure Custom Fields in our directory</a> was to provide users of our plugin directory the best, safest, most secure code. It included a security update that still has not been merged by the ACF team.</li>



<li>We will merge any improvements ACF makes to their GPL code going forward and will also include enhanced functionality in the coming days to provide a secure and free drop-in replacement for ACF. If WP Engine didn&#8217;t want this to happen, they should not have published their code under the GPL or distributed it through WordPress.org&#8217;s directory.</li>



<li>I think it&#8217;s fantastic when businesses are built on open source, the WordPress ecosystem is at least 10B+ a year; Automattic and WP Engine are less than 5% of that.</li>
</ul>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 15 Oct 2024 09:30:02 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:2;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:85:"Do The Woo Community: A Conversation with Beau Lebens, WooCommerce in 2024 and Beyond";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=86017";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:83:"https://dothewoo.io/a-conversation-with-beau-lebens-woocommerce-in-2024-and-beyond/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:55954:"Episode Transcript
<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />Welcome to another episode of <em>Inside Woo</em>. I&#8217;m your host, Jonathan Wold, and with me today is Beau Lebens, the head of engineering at WooCommerce. How are you, Beau?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />I&#8217;m doing well, Jonathan. Thanks for having me on.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />It&#8217;s good to have you, and we have a lot to cover inside of WooCommerce. Before we get to that, though, for those who don&#8217;t know, would you mind giving us just a bit of background on yourself? You&#8217;ve been at Automattic for, if I&#8217;m counting right, 15 years now?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, a little like that. Yep. A little over 15 years.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />And WooCommerce, you&#8217;ve been focused on WooCommerce for over five years now at this point, and you&#8217;ve worn a lot of different hats. Can you just give us some context for your work broadly at Automattic and what you&#8217;ve been focused on at Woo for the past five-plus years?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Sure thing. Yeah, so as you mentioned, it’s been a little over 15 years with Automattic now. I came on originally as an engineer, just the one engineer person, and worked on a bunch of different parts of Automattic. I originally actually came on working, ironically, not directly on WordPress. The first few things I actually worked on were IntenseDebate and then Gravatar, but then I got deep into WordPress.com. I worked on Jetpack for a number of years and then came over to the Woo team, I guess it was five and a half years ago, and joined originally on what was then the core engineering team, with an eye towards being in this sort of engineering leadership role, helping to steer the future of WooCommerce in the WordPress space as someone who had actually worked in the WordPress world before joining Automattic as well. So, really early on in the WordPress space, and so that&#8217;s sort of always been my forte. And since coming onto Woo, I have really helped, I guess, steer Woo alongside WordPress, which is something I believe we’ll talk about. There’s something we’re still doing, which is having Woo be kind of in lockstep with the evolution of WordPress itself, but then also steering it towards this whole green space as far as the commerce world goes, and what it looks like and what it means to be not just the de facto commerce solution for WordPress, but being a real commerce ecosystem of its own.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />So, you&#8217;ve worn a lot of different hats, and with Automattic broadly—myself as a former Automattician—there&#8217;s a lot of flexibility and freedom that you have to pursue interests. So, you have a lot of autonomy in what you do. I’m a big fan of a wide-ranging experience. I think it makes you better at the work that you do. Are there any particular experiences that stand out to you from your 15 years that have especially helped shape the work, I guess the experience and the approach, that you take to the work that you do now in WooCommerce?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Definitely, yeah. So as I mentioned, I sort of was working with WordPress before I even started at Automattic. Originally, I got involved with WordPress—I guess very originally—just because it was an interesting new platform. I was in the web space already and was building websites and doing all sorts of things that WordPress looked interesting for. But then what really got me deep into it was actually attempting a startup with a friend of mine, which, as many startups do, failed miserably. But the premise there was actually leveraging what was, at the time, WordPress MU (which is now a multisite feature that is baked into core), and integrating with bbPress, which is sort of a bulletin board or forum system based on WordPress. So, it was taking those, mashing them together, and then completely changing the front-end experience, so the user didn’t actually know they were using WordPress or bbPress for that matter. So, it was this really customized WordPress-based system.</p>



<p>And when I look back, that’s actually something that has been a little bit of a thread and feels relevant now, the way that we look at WooCommerce, which is: Yes, this thing is based on WordPress. Yes, it is WordPress-powered. Yes, it brings WordPress’s ability to manipulate and manage content to the forefront, but it’s also something else. And it’s leaning into that—leveraging this operating system, if you like, and customizing it towards a specific experience, in our case commerce, and then doing everything that’s possible with that power that comes under the hood. And so, that’s still something that we’re doing today. We are leveraging all of the power of WordPress’s posts and users and settings management, all of this stuff that comes under the hood, all of that portability and flexibility that allows it to run on any web host, but we’re applying that same approach to commerce.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />I think that’s part of what I’ve always found interesting about WooCommerce in particular, is it’s such a great example of an ecosystem within WordPress. And I think it’s especially so because, for most folks who are using WooCommerce, they have this clear business intention, this clear commercial intention, but the way that they got there can vary quite a bit. They could have started out in WordPress with a blog and suddenly, like, add commerce, and then that sort of takes off. And now you have this commerce business. There are people who came in just for WooCommerce—that was something that we began to see early on in WooCommerce is people coming into the ecosystem for Woo. So, it’s always sat at this unique intersection.</p>



<p>And I think what I’m interested in hearing first is, you have this evolution of WooCommerce starting out as a plugin that gave you a lot out of the box from the outset and introduced this whole new range of capabilities to WordPress. And already, from your perspective, when did ecosystem thinking first come into WooCommerce? Was that driven by how people began to use it and what they demanded of it? What’s your perspective as an observer first, and then coming into where that thinking about WooCommerce as a plugin evolved into an ecosystem?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, that’s a great question. I want to actually just really quickly touch on that mention of these overlapping ecosystems or communities between WordPress and WooCommerce, because I think that’s the really fascinating one. There’s a couple of different ways you can look at it, and I often look at it—there are two specific ways I tend to look at it. One is, if you try and Venn diagram those worlds, right? WooCommerce has huge overlap with WordPress, obviously, as a product and as a community and an ecosystem, but it’s not 100%. So, to your point, there’s a certain slice of people, whether they’re developers or the merchants themselves, who really aren’t thinking about WordPress much at all. It’s just there, it’s the foundation of WooCommerce, but they’re thinking of it through a sort of WooCommerce-first lens. And so, that may be a merchant who just wants to set up a store…</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />…which I think is worth pointing out that that’s pretty unique. In WordPress, oftentimes there’s a lot of ecosystems, sub-ecosystems—forms are good examples—but with WooCommerce, I think you’ll have people who really aren’t thinking about the WordPress part, which is something a lot of people in WordPress, it may not be obvious unless you point it out.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It’s something that, especially if you’re sort of steeped in this WordPress background (which, I’ll be the first to say, I am myself), it’s actually kind of hard to wrap your head around that reality and accept that, no, some of these people, they just heard about WooCommerce, and they heard WooCommerce is how you put a store on the internet. And so, they go looking for that, and that’s what they want. And then, as they unpeel the onion, if you like, they see, oh, there’s this WordPress thing under here as well, and I have access to this whole other, what they think of as a whole other ecosystem of WordPress solutions and flexibility and everything else that comes.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />Like, &#8220;Oh, I can have a blog as well, that’s cool.&#8221;</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Right. &#8220;And I can add complicated forms to it, and I can optimize my SEO,&#8221; all these other things that come along with that WordPress world. They maybe didn’t appreciate that they were getting that out of the box with WooCommerce.</p>



<p>The other lens that I look at it—so first, you’ve got that Venn diagram world. The other one is this sort of stacked platforms, if you like, where WordPress is very much a platform, it’s a whole ecosystem—it’s WordPress the solution, and then all of the plugins and themes and everything that come with it. WooCommerce is kind of like, oh, add another core platform on top of that, and then another whole ecosystem of WooCommerce-specific solutions. So we refer to them as extensions, but at a code level, they’re really just WordPress plugins that rely on WooCommerce specifically. And there’s a whole other world of them, which is sort of this next layer on this commerce solution, if you like.</p>



<p>And so, when you think about it as slices rather than a Venn diagram, we have basically everything that you have at</p>



<p>the WooCommerce level, whether that’s communities or meetups or plugins or any of the solutions that exist for WordPress. We have all of that at the WooCommerce layer as well. And so then, that’s a really interesting way of slicing it out. And then you can look at just what’s happening at the WooCommerce level, but then also how does that interact with the layer below it? So you end up in a pretty complex environment, but it’s a really interesting one to work in.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />So, if you start to take its origins as a plugin, from your perspective, how did we get there? I like the layers idea. What are the things that stand out to you?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />I actually think early on in WooCommerce’s trajectory, if you like, there was kind of this acknowledgment that you can’t build everything that you need for a commerce solution in a single plugin for WordPress. It’s hard enough to do as a complete standalone, entirely controlled SaaS service. Even in that environment, you can’t build everything that you need to cater to every commerce solution all in one native package. You have to have something of an ecosystem to provide all of the unique solutions that all of these different commerce scenarios require.</p>



<p>So from day one, I think whether it was fully acknowledged or not, WooCommerce has sort of embraced this idea that it takes an ecosystem to provide all of these solutions. And what we’ve done over the years is really lean into that. And we’ve really said, yeah, that’s core to how WooCommerce works. No matter how much we may or may not build into that core experience, you’re always going to need the flexibility that WordPress and, by extension, WooCommerce provide. You’re always going to need some extra workflow modification, or maybe you need, I don’t know, a specific shipping carrier in a region that’s not very big, whatever it may be. And so the way that we can provide that is that we as Woo—that distinction is there, the company rather than WooCommerce the product—something that’s really important to us is figuring out how to build an excellent experience but retain this flexibility and extensibility so that developers and builders can customize and tailor it.</p>



<p>And then, I think one of the other big challenges for us is making sure that interoperability is there so that once you start putting together a solution, it still feels like a meaningful, singular commerce experience. And that exists both at that WooCommerce layer and that WordPress layer. And that’s where it gets really interesting, frankly, and challenging. And where I think the direction that WordPress is going (which we can talk about if that’s interesting) is really sort of enabling a level of integration and flexibility that actually is not great at the moment in WordPress. WordPress has some, I think, almost a lack of opinion that has been great for flexibility but has resulted in some experiences that feel a bit disjointed and that aren’t as deeply integrated as they could be.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />I started writing about this concept of ecosystem plugins a number of years back, and WooCommerce was the one that really stood out to me. And when I think about this concept of an ecosystem within WordPress, there were three characteristics that stood out. First, you have to introduce a suite of functionality, which WooCommerce clearly does—a whole new category. You also have to provide an integration layer that can be extended. But the third thing—and I’ve felt from the beginning that WooCommerce, whether inadvertently or not, has done this better than most—is you also need to influence and shape that ecosystem, like taking an active role. Because I think a lot of the ecosystems we have in WordPress, up until more recently, it’s been fairly hands-off. And I think in WooCommerce, there’s a degree, at least from my perspective, to which just the demands of the growing business required active curation. The partnerships team did a lot of work to help shape and influence what came into WooCommerce.</p>



<p>But from your perspective, through your lens and the roles that you’ve played, and from an engineering perspective, how do you think about the responsibility of WooCommerce the business to shape the ecosystem, especially when it’s so large? There are people who use WooCommerce in so many different ways, and you’re already beginning to allude to the importance of opinions there. But how do you think about that responsibility?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, it’s a tricky one. It can be, as you said, it’s really broad, and so people are doing all sorts of things with WooCommerce, some of which we would never imagine. And so, it’s very difficult to plan for that. We do take backwards compatibility really seriously. Similar to one of the things that is actually sort of fundamental to WordPress’s success over the 20 years that it’s existed, is this commitment to backwards compatibility. What does that look like? What does that mean? And frankly, it’s something that, as engineers and developers, it’s easy to get really annoyed with and wish that we didn’t have to do and just wish that we could move forward, change things, build the new shiny thing, build a new system, whatever. But I think that’s fundamental to WordPress’s success and WooCommerce’s success.</p>



<p>We do need to break it sometimes—there are some unavoidable situations where maybe it’s a security fix or a specification change, or whatever it might be where we just can’t figure out how to maintain backwards compatibility or, frankly, staying backwards compatible is not in everyone’s best interest, and so we have to move things forward.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />Let’s talk about that specifically because I think it’s a really good example of where the tension, especially from an engineering perspective, lies because, at least from my perspective, having worked with many engineers, you can kind of move on. You see better ways to do something. You see, okay, there’s this new set of practices that we want to bring in. This makes a lot of sense. And from an end user’s perspective, oftentimes it just doesn’t matter. And if you look at it, I feel similarly that WordPress’s and WooCommerce’s success is in large part due to the confidence and stability that comes from that. People don’t have to think about it often; it’s just not breaking. Is there an example that stands out to you of where you did the harder work—usually the much harder work—to maintain the backwards compatibility? I think for builders listening to me, this is an important part of success in the WordPress ecosystem, is internalizing why this compatibility, why the work matters. Is there any example that stands out to you?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, I have a huge one, which is very relevant. We can talk about the past version and the future version of it, and that’s HPOS—so high-performance order storage. For anyone who’s not familiar, this is a pretty fundamental change where, historically, WooCommerce had stored all of its order information, so someone places an order on your website, you make a sale, that information was stored in the WP post table, because that was the sort of most flexible place to store that data in a WordPress install, where historically it was somewhat frowned upon to introduce your own custom tables. And so back in the day, WooCommerce was built as a plugin. It was intended to be installed on WordPress, spun up pretty quickly, and you could just go about your way, start taking orders.</p>



<p>So HPOS was this project to shift all of that data to a custom set of tables, which were optimized for storing large volumes of order data and for processing at high capacity. And the actual engineering work to just do that, if we were just changing WooCommerce core, was done in about two months max. And that’s with even sort of trying to allow for the fact that the way that we did it, the planning process, everything was very different because we were catering to an entire ecosystem. So we did this work, and then it took almost two years before that was actually the default on new WooCommerce installs.</p>



<p>And that’s because all of the work was really around the ecosystem and adoption and educating other developers and introducing systems to allow different plugins to declare compatibility or incompatibility and how we handle all of those different combinations of things that are or are not compatible. That’s where all the complexity came in. And that, frankly, is all about backwards compatibility, whether that’s at the sort of user level or the code level, it’s handling all of these different scenarios that exist in the WordPress world because you’ve got these different versions of things out there running, and you can’t just update them all at once. We can’t just go tell people, you have to update WordPress, WooCommerce, and every plugin that you’re running to X version and they’re all compatible and then you’re good. And so since we can’t do that, we have to deal with this complexity.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />That’s a great example because I think instinctively it feels to me like it was the right approach to focus on the lowest common denominator of experience, which is the merchant, and also the most important in this case. So, it takes that time, yet if you can make it available to your builders, to the agency ecosystem sooner, then there&#8217;s more winning that can happen. They&#8217;re able to successfully roll this out for their merchants, their clients, your merchants, and you can probably get a productive feedback loop that also gives confidence that makes what you ultimately roll out to everyone more effective. And if I contrast this to other ecosystems, part of the problem is that they don&#8217;t have that first focus. I don&#8217;t remember the details of it, but my sense of what happened with Magento, for instance, was this sort of big cut from one to the next. And from what I recall, there were developers who were</p>



<p>quite happy about the changes, and probably also the work that they&#8217;d have to be paid for to make the migration successful. But a lot of merchants ended up being disenfranchised and just lost in the process. So, you’ve done a good job, from my perspective, to remain merchant-centric in those decisions. And it sounds like you&#8217;ve recognized the role that your ecosystem can play in supporting that, and you can create a win for them as well in the process.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, that’s definitely a learning for us. And I think also a challenge and just something that we&#8217;re still getting better at is how to really engage with this developer ecosystem. You mentioned earlier that there are people out there building WooCommerce solutions, and we frankly just don’t even know who most of them are. That’s both the beauty and the struggle of, I think, WordPress itself, but also WooCommerce is that they&#8217;re out there in the world. The code base is available, people can go build them and deploy them anywhere, and they may not interact with us in any way. And so, it can be very difficult for us to communicate with that ecosystem of builders and developers. And it&#8217;s something that actually, I think we haven&#8217;t done as good of a job as we should have in the last few years, but I guess a few years ago, the last year plus, you may have seen we&#8217;re much more active out there in public now. That&#8217;s a really conscious and intentional shift. We really want to engage with developers through GitHub, through our Slack community, through our developer blog. We&#8217;ve been putting a ton of work into tightening up and aggregating all of the, what was disparate documentation for our platform, bringing that all into a single developer hub, and then also leaning into tooling—do we have CLI commands and all of the stuff that we know developers actually prefer to work with. They shouldn’t have to dig through the code to find out how to do something. We should have better documentation for that.</p>



<p>So that&#8217;s really a foundational thing for us that we&#8217;re investing a lot in. And we really want that feedback loop with community developers who are building on top of WooCommerce or they&#8217;re building solutions for WooCommerce. Frankly, a lot of that has happened without us hearing about it. And so sometimes we get these blowups of feedback where people get frustrated and they say, &#8220;Why aren’t you doing X?&#8221; And we say, &#8220;Oh, we actually hadn&#8217;t heard that that was such a big deal to you.&#8221;</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />So, this is one of the things that’s standing out to me in this—some of these problems, these challenges, we&#8217;ll call them challenges—that you&#8217;re experiencing are quite unique to open source. If we contrast this to proprietary platforms, in a proprietary platform, you wouldn&#8217;t have that. Typically, you wouldn’t have that two-year period.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />You’d just do it.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />You just do it. &#8220;This approach is deprecated as of this year. We&#8217;ve upgraded everything.&#8221;</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Exactly.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />You take care of it for them. And you also know your constraints, who’s working in your platform more often than not. And if you don’t, you can solve that a lot more readily. I’m curious from your perspective, I guess I&#8217;m not asking about just the benefits of it in this open-source ecosystem. And I think that’s a big part of why it’s grown to where it is. It’s a key factor in all of this. But I guess, how do you think about—you grew up in the WordPress space—how do you think about the impact that the open-source nature has, the benefits, and the trade-offs to WooCommerce? Because you started from a plugin, now you have an entire ecosystem that happens to be open source. It’s quite unique and very commercial in its nature, and there are all these dynamics at play. And yeah, I think it’s worth touching on that because that&#8217;s a single characteristic that has a lot of impact on what you&#8217;re trying to work on.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Definitely. Yeah, it’s an interesting and very difficult question to answer because, as you said, it seems like a relatively narrow question…</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />Right? &#8220;Oh, it’s just open source.&#8221;</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, it has so many implications. So I do think it is fundamental both to our previous success—I think it is what got us here—and it poses some unique challenges in going forward. There are certain things that, especially in a commerce space, would be much, much easier to do if we controlled the full stack, if all of WooCommerce was hosted in a single environment and we could just deploy updates, or we could optimize certain things. Performance is a favorite topic, which is actually an area that we are investing in more this year. We mentioned HPOS, but there are a ton of different performance characteristics that, when you control the whole system, you can just optimize for the way that system works. Whether it’s, I don’t know, adding an index in a database or optimizing a specific query or whatever it might be—adding a specific caching layer—we don’t even know what people do with most WooCommerce stores. And so, it makes it very, very difficult to optimize the performance profile of something that you don’t know what it is.</p>



<p>So that sort of thing can be really challenging. But I think what we&#8217;re seeing is, over the years, there’s a certain number of pretty consistent profiles that we see. For example, people use WooCommerce in certain ways, and it’s actually one of the beauties of being housed within Automattic, which has multiple hosting environments, is that we can just go look at real stores and see how they’re going, what they’re doing, what software they’re running, what performance bottlenecks do they ever run into, and then just working directly with them and improving it and then bringing those improvements back to the rest of the platform.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />It’s such a unique challenge. I remember when I worked at WooCommerce, one of the debates at the time was this: how does WooCommerce relate to the hosting ecosystem? And this is such a good example because someone can have really low-cost hosting on WordPress, which is great, and then wake up one day and decide to install WooCommerce and run WooCommerce and start to take orders. All of this can be happening in an environment that was not designed, intended for that, right? And that’s not necessarily going to be apparent to the user.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />They have a bad experience potentially, and they think, &#8220;Oh, it’s WooCommerce’s fault.&#8221; And I think commerce and content are really interesting when married together, but they’re also almost opposed from a performance perspective, right?</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />Caching versus not caching.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Exactly.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />Right out of the gate.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Right out of the gate. The fundamental strategy for content performance is just cache everything, and basically, it’s a static website, and to the moon. And it’s the opposite with commerce—you basically have to not cache everything, or there are definitely caching strategies that you can go down, but you probably can’t just static cache everything. You probably have a very different profile of users coming back to your website. And so, there are just fundamental differences there that really do require us to think about the way that we approach WooCommerce as: it’s on WordPress, but it’s also quite different from WordPress.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />So then, here comes the tension, right? Because from an engineering perspective, and especially if you didn’t come up in the WordPress space—which is part of why I think you’re in such a unique position—if you came from a proprietary ecosystem, the answer would be clear: &#8220;Well, we need to control this.&#8221; &#8220;Let&#8217;s not deal with all these hosts out here. We need to control as much of this as possible.&#8221; And you could argue, I think successfully, that from what’s best for the merchant’s perspective, that’s a fair line of reasoning. Let’s give them a great experience. And hosting is a good example of an open-source variable that can have a big impact. But yet, that’s also a big part of why WooCommerce has grown as much as it has. You have this vast ecosystem. And while it’s much harder, I’ve been really happy to see WooCommerce take an approach over the past couple of years of working with the hosts and figuring out, okay, how do we support that? So how do you think about that? And I think for the merchant in particular, ideally, they wouldn’t even have to care about this, but yet there is real-world impact to that. There’s a lot there, but how do you think about that?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, so I think it’s really interesting that you&#8217;re sort of bringing it from the merchant&#8217;s perspective because we try and do that a lot. Ultimately, even though we know that builders and developers are involved with many WooCommerce deployments, ultimately, it’s a merchant who has to use the product. And so, however we get there, we need to get to a good merchant experience. And frankly, something that we’ve seen over the years is that if you look back originally to the sort of WooCommerce early days, WooThemes days, and then all the way through—frankly, until now—the model for WooCommerce is you get WooCommerce, and then you will definitely add all of these other solutions. You’ll add a payment gateway, a shipping carrier, a tax solution probably, who knows—all sorts of things. Actually, fun fact, I think the number I’ve seen recently is an average Woo store has something like 44 plugins. So you’re talking about a lot of extra stuff.</p>



<p>And so that was intentional. That was the approach—</p>



<p>give builders and merchants the flexibility to get this core and then plug in any solution that they need and mix and match to get exactly what they want. And what we’ve seen over the years is, I guess, two things. One, that introduces a level of decision fatigue, discoverability, and complexity that people don’t actually love. No one really wants to manage a bunch of software. So there’s this level of complexity that it introduces. And then, the other one is frankly that the expectations of people on the internet have changed. WooCommerce has been around for over a decade. Things have changed in that time.</p>



<p>And so, what we are seeing is we actually need, as the platform, as WooCommerce, we actually need to have a little bit stronger of an opinion on what good looks like. And so, you will see us start to shift a little bit more towards, hey, if you don’t have a preference or you don’t have a specific need, you should just use this solution.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />Stronger defaults.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Right, stronger defaults, which is theoretically something that WordPress has always had—decisions, not options. This has been a mantra forever, and we&#8217;ve usually tried to do that at the technical level, but we haven’t always done it at the sort of product experience level. And you’ll see us do that a little bit more going forward, and that’s directly based on feedback where we’ve just heard, &#8220;Look, there are too many things to manage. There are too many choices to make. I actually don’t want to do this. I just want to be told which ones work together. I want them to work really well. I want them to be integrated. If I’m using a specific payment solution, I want to get comprehensive payment reports, and I want it to perfectly handle my taxes,&#8221; whatever the combination may be.</p>



<p>And when you&#8217;re mixing and matching from the ground up, that level of interoperability can be pretty tricky to get right. So, you’ll see us do a little bit more of that—saying, &#8220;Hey, these solutions work together.&#8221; We still want to maintain the option—if you don’t want to use that, you’ve still got the flexibility. That’s the beauty of everything being open source and extensible. But if you go that route, then obviously, you&#8217;re taking all of that into your own hands, and now you need to figure out, do they work together as well as they could, which is frankly how things are right now. And that&#8217;s part of the value that builders provide in the equation—putting together a package of solutions and then making sure that they work well together.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />So, you guys just recently launched the business services category, and to me, that was good. I was happy to see that. It was a good example of, at least from an outside perspective, this continued evolution to take in a more holistic view of the things that merchants need. If you&#8217;re a merchant and you&#8217;re having any kind of success, there’s a whole series of additional things you are going to need at some point, right? And yeah, I think I&#8217;d love to hear more from you on anything that stands out to you in that evolution—the impact of thinking more holistically, of thinking about better decisions, not options, of thinking about that end-user experience. How is that affecting what you prioritize in terms of developing new features and introducing new things like the business services category?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, that&#8217;s a great one. So, I guess just to touch on that briefly, for anyone who’s not familiar with it, I guess a few months ago now we introduced the business services tab within our marketplace. And this is basically where you go as a merchant to find sort of WooCommerce-adjacent services. So, the idea is they don’t necessarily need a technology integration; they may not be part of your website or part of your baked-in business workflow, but you need them to run a business. And I think this sort of breaking out of the idea of WooCommerce as just a plugin to, no, for a lot of people, WooCommerce represents their business. It is the hub, how they run their livelihood. And so, what can we do to help them do that? What are all the other pieces that are relevant when running a business, and how do we connect people to those solutions? I think previously, we just relied on, I guess, developers to either do that or for a business owner to engage with a developer and a tax professional or an accountant or whoever, and for them to just figure it out themselves. And if we’re in a world where we’re trying to enable merchants to get up and running and get going, then the more we can do to help them, the better. So, that’s really where that’s coming from.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />I like that a lot. One thing I want to touch on—so I think WooCommerce and WordPress, especially being in Automattic, there’s always been a unique interplay between what’s happening in core WordPress and what’s happening in WooCommerce. I remember WooCommerce was doing early work on blocks, and there was an alignment of interest there, I think because it was at Automattic, that might not have been there otherwise. It was a lot of work to try and figure out how do we do this. And I remember some of the early—at least from my perspective—there was a lot of pioneering work that was done in Woo on improving user interfaces and experiences that also had a positive impact on the work that was happening in core. So, how do you think about the interplay? WooCommerce, to me, is the largest and most impactful sub-ecosystem of WordPress, and that can be something that can be lost at times. How do you think about the relationship between what&#8217;s happening in WooCommerce versus what’s happening in WordPress? How does WooCommerce, from an engineering perspective, think about what&#8217;s happening in the project and where WordPress itself is evolving?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, I think you&#8217;re spot on with the reality that if WooCommerce wasn’t within Automattic, things might be a little different here, and that would impact both WooCommerce and WordPress. The work that you’re referring to, investing early in blocks and thinking about what’s happening in WordPress core, is very much still happening. Actually, a perfect example of that—a couple of examples, actually—the product editor that you&#8217;ve seen us working on, if you&#8217;re watching the sort of things that are feature-flagged and available, if you jump into the right spot, that’s undergone a couple of really major changes, and there’s probably still another one coming, which is part of why we haven’t pushed that out as any sort of default experience for the majority of users. And that’s because it’s evolving alongside what’s happening in WordPress. And frankly, WordPress itself is still figuring out a lot of things related to full-site editing, to data views, to all these new components and new UX patterns and things. And so, we&#8217;re right there with them. We&#8217;re actually working alongside core Gutenberg teams and really bringing to them, &#8220;Hey, we have this complex experience that’s critical for commerce that you haven&#8217;t considered yet. Let’s work together and solve for that.&#8221;</p>



<p>Actually, a kind of random good example—we’re having a conversation at the moment around, should data views—so these are effectively the replacement for a WP list table—should they support drag-and-drop? On the surface, you&#8217;d say, yeah, absolutely. But there are a lot of scenarios where it breaks. If you&#8217;ve got a sort or a filter applied and you change the order, what happens now? So, there’s a bunch of things like that where the fact that we represent commerce, we represent a lot of really complex user interactions and a certain way of interacting with what is technically WordPress (which WordPress focused purely on content may not be taking into account). And so, what I like to think is that WooCommerce is basically one of the most complex applications of anything that WordPress could come up with. And so, if the WordPress platform can support that, it can support almost anything.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />I like that example a lot, and I think one of the strengths—it’s a double-edged sword—one of the strengths is that interplay of content and commerce that merchants see, right? They love the idea of being able to create content, which is often key to the marketing, the sales side of a commerce business. And it’s easy to take for granted—that&#8217;s not just trivial in these other platforms. They tend to be, &#8220;Okay, this is commerce, and maybe there’s some light content layer.&#8221; So, there&#8217;s a lot of complexity that comes with that because they’re not the same, yet they can have a clear relationship with each other. But the needs in commerce—it’s a different workflow, different expectations, different problem set, the caching versus non-caching. So, it seems like it’s a lot more work to do that and to stay with that.</p>



<p>As we’re nearing the end, what I&#8217;d love to touch on is—you see that work firsthand, and I think that’s increasingly appreciated for those who&#8217;ve been in the space for a while and been following. It could be frustrating that things don’t happen quickly. At the same time, I think people who are paying attention can also see that care and consideration and thinking long-term is also part of what you&#8217;d want in a steward of the ecosystem. So, for the builders who are listening and they’re looking to the future of WooCommerce, what are some of the things that you would be encouraging builders to be thinking about? Where should they be focusing some of their energy and efforts? Let’s start with the agency folks first. For folks who are building for merchants, they have clients, whether freelancers or agencies, what are some of the things that</p>



<p>you recommend that they be thinking about in the context of where you see the platform going?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Great question. Yeah, so I think we&#8217;ve talked about blocks and the future of WordPress and where WordPress is going. So, I&#8217;d say part of it would be to understand that as much as you can, especially for bigger agencies—I think they tend to be better connected to what is happening with WordPress. So, understand that and be looking at what does this mean for the sites that I&#8217;m building, especially on the backend. So, in the admin experience, things are shifting towards blocks, towards this new WP admin design that is sort of coming slowly down the pike—the full-site editor. So, think about how that all applies to the type of work that you do and look at which solutions you&#8217;re picking. So, which extensions or plugins are you choosing to build new sites on? Especially, are they compatible with this future? I would frankly be really thinking about that at this point. If they’re not and you are not the developer of that solution, start working with that developer to understand how they can make it compatible with that future. Start engaging with us. Like I said before, we really are out there trying to engage more directly with developers and agencies because we want to hear what is happening out there. I think people actually forget that agencies are often—agencies and solo developers—they&#8217;re actually often the front line that’s really understanding the reality of applying software like WordPress or WooCommerce in a way that we frankly may not understand because we are building the software and they&#8217;re applying it in certain scenarios. So, getting that real-world feedback loop of, hey, how are you using it? What problems are you running into? Are there limitations we can remove? Are there things that we&#8217;re not doing that we should be doing, or whatever?</p>



<p>Really closing that feedback loop with us is the biggest thing. I mentioned earlier, I think we have a community Slack channel—that’s a great spot to start. We have a developer blog, which is at developer.woocommerce.com. There’s a developer-specific newsletter on there now, which I would strongly recommend anyone building for WooCommerce to be on. And then, we&#8217;ve started using GitHub discussions pretty actively as well. So, I&#8217;d suggest jumping in there. You&#8217;ll see RFCs for major changes that we&#8217;re looking at doing—things like that. We need real feedback from people who are frankly outside of that cycle of Gutenberg development (and I use Gutenberg there loosely just to refer to the whole roadmap). But yeah, real-world uses of WooCommerce—we want to hear about them.</p>



<p>And I guess I would say—this sounds a little &#8220;Matrix-y&#8221;—but open your mind a little bit. We&#8217;ve heard feedback from builders specifically or developers who don’t necessarily want change. They know how to build for the current system, and they want it to stay the same. We need to change to stay up with WordPress. WooCommerce and WordPress are inextricably tied together. That’s not going to change. So, we are going to stay deeply integrated with WordPress. We believe that’s actually the thing that makes us unique in the market and which gives us the strength and flexibility and the reach of WordPress itself. So, we fully intend to stay integrated with WordPress, and that means that the future is going in a certain direction. So, I would encourage everyone to understand that direction and come along with us.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />I like that a lot. The business services category launch, I think, is a good illustration of what I&#8217;m observing in the market, which is a growing interest from products to play in the WooCommerce space. More product companies are coming in, they’re seeing the opportunity, they’re seeing the size of the ecosystem, and that&#8217;s been an important part for a long time now—people building extensions. And you&#8217;re seeing bigger and bigger companies come in. There&#8217;s a full partnerships team at WooCommerce. For the people listening who are building products for the WooCommerce ecosystem, what guidance do you have to offer them? How would you encourage them to be thinking about the evolution of WooCommerce as a platform, as an ecosystem, and what should they be paying attention to?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, that&#8217;s a good one. So, I think, as you said, there are a lot of people trying to enter the WooCommerce market, if you like. And for us, we&#8217;re in this weird spot. We&#8217;ve talked a lot about ecosystem thinking and the community and working with developers and builders, and that is the strength of what we&#8217;re doing. But frankly, if we&#8217;re to remain running as a business, we also need to commercialize certain parts of it. We need to be part of the money that&#8217;s flowing through this ecosystem so that we can continue funding the development of what we&#8217;re doing.</p>



<p>So, I mentioned there&#8217;s a few sort of central commerce experiences that we&#8217;re investing heavily in. I&#8217;d say off the top-line list of that is payments, shipping, taxes. These are areas that you&#8217;re going to see us invest in heavily, and you&#8217;ve already seen us probably building WooPayments. We also recently relaunched WooCommerce Shipping. So, these are areas that we know that it&#8217;s critical for merchants to have a great experience, and we believe that the best experience is one that’s going to be deeply integrated with WooCommerce. So, there are plenty of other solutions for payments and shipping in particular where it&#8217;s a plugin and then you go use some other dashboard to manage that part of your business. And we fundamentally believe that there is at least a certain audience who want that all in WP admin. They want an integrated experience, they want to be able to bounce between different parts. I mentioned earlier like payments and taxes, let&#8217;s say. You can imagine that actually extending to all three—so, if you&#8217;re taking a payment that includes taxes, that covers shipping, you want to be able to understand all of that in the performance of your business. And if that&#8217;s spread out across multiple systems, that can be really difficult. So, I&#8217;d say we&#8217;ll be investing more heavily in those areas, which is not to say that other people shouldn&#8217;t, but I guess know that we will be playing in those spaces a lot.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />For someone who is coming into the space—you just made that point about the importance of the integrated experience. If they&#8217;re new, how would you encourage them to be thinking about that? For instance, in the business services category, you introduced banking, for instance. And unless your intention is to get into banking (which, who knows?), but it’s—for someone who&#8217;s in the banking space and coming in, how would you be encouraging them to be thinking about things like that? Should it be integrated? There&#8217;s not existing precedent, right? It could be outside the space; they could go to a separate dashboard. How would you think about that example?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, banking is an interesting one. Obviously, that&#8217;s a really complicated space.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />But also fundamental to commerce.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Fundamental to commerce, pretty connected to payments, interestingly. So, it is an area that we&#8217;re sort of touching on. But I would say in general, what we would love to see more of is people who are really thinking about WooCommerce as a whole complex system and how can they build something that&#8217;s part of that complex system rather than, &#8220;I represent banking; I want to just make my banking visible.&#8221; That’s the first step. But actually building it in some sort of integrated way is really where we see things succeed more.</p>



<p>So, I mentioned that the business services tab is largely for things that really probably won&#8217;t integrate deeply or are somewhat separate or somewhat adjacent to the website itself. There may be some crossover—so actually, banking is maybe a good one. We probably could, and probably will, have more flows and better seamless handoff between your WooCommerce store and whatever that banking solution is. But we&#8217;re probably not going to, for example, replicate your entire banking website and banking experience all within WooCommerce. In business services, just as a specific example, I think is also really interesting for connecting things like developers. And this is an interesting sort of crossover—one of the services you may need as a business is a developer to customize your business website.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />Right.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />So, I think there&#8217;s an interesting crossover there, which we’ve just started exploring—opening up the ability for merchants to get access to various forms of technical support, to use a loose term there, as part of running their business.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />Well, I’m excited. There&#8217;s a lot to the ecosystem, and I think this is why you coming on episodes like this is especially helpful from my perspective, to give a broader sense of what&#8217;s going on behind the scenes. And I really appreciate you taking the time to share. We&#8217;ve given folks a lot of things to think about and work with. If someone wants to reach out to you, Beau, what&#8217;s the best way to get in contact?</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />The best way is probably to tweet at me, or I guess &#8220;X&#8221; at me, however you say that now. Yeah, you can get me on there. It’s just @BeauLeins, which I’m sure we can put in the show notes or something for the spelling. Or frankly, you can also just email me: beau@automattic.com.</p>



<p><strong>Jonathan:</strong><br />Excellent. Beau, thank you for the time. Thank you for the work that you and the team have been doing, and talk to you soon.</p>



<p><strong>Beau:</strong><br />Yeah, thanks, Jonathan. Appreciate it. Been fun.</p>



<div class="wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained"></div>




<p>In this episode of <strong><em>Inside Woo</em></strong>, host <strong>Jonathan Wold</strong> welcomes <strong>Beau Lebens</strong>, head of engineering at WooCommerce, to discuss the development and future of WooCommerce within the WordPress ecosystem which grew out of his post on Woo, <em><strong>WooCommerce in 2024 and beyond: Roadmap update</strong></em>.</p>



<p>Beau shares his extensive experience within Automattic and provides insights into the uniqueness of WooCommerce as it evolves from a WordPress plugin to a complete commerce solution with its ecosystem. The conversation covers topics such as the challenges and responsibilities of maintaining backward compatibility, the role of WooCommerce in the broader WordPress evolution, and the strategic alignment with new WordPress technologies like blocks and full site editing. </p>



<p>Beau highlights ongoing efforts to improve the integration of merchant and agency experiences, focusing on performance optimization and ecosystem collaboration. They also chat about  new additions like the Business Services tab and emphasizes the importance of providing integrated, merchant-centric solutions.</p>



<p><strong>Takeaways</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>WooCommerce’s Growth</strong>: WooCommerce started as a simple plugin but has evolved into a robust ecosystem, tightly integrated with WordPress, providing flexibility for both developers and merchants.</li>



<li><strong>Stronger Defaults for Merchants</strong>: To reduce complexity and decision fatigue for merchants, WooCommerce is focusing on providing stronger defaults, particularly in payments, shipping, and taxes, while still maintaining flexibility for developers.</li>



<li><strong>Backward Compatibility</strong>: WooCommerce is deeply committed to backward compatibility, even when implementing complex changes like the High-Performance Order Storage (HPOS) project, to ensure stability for merchants and developers.</li>



<li><strong>Developer Engagement</strong>: WooCommerce is increasingly engaging with its developer community through GitHub, Slack, and blogs, seeking feedback to shape future updates and features.</li>



<li><strong>Ecosystem Thinking</strong>: WooCommerce embraces ecosystem thinking, encouraging third-party developers to build integrated solutions that work seamlessly within the WooCommerce platform rather than as standalone products.</li>



<li><strong>Commerce and Content Performance</strong>: One of WooCommerce’s unique challenges is balancing the performance needs of real-time commerce with content-focused caching, requiring continuous optimization.</li>



<li><strong>Future Investment</strong>: WooCommerce is investing heavily in key areas such as payments, shipping, taxes, and technologies like blocks and full-site editing, aligning with WordPress’s long-term roadmap.</li>
</ul>



<p><strong>Links</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://x.com/beaulebens">Beau Lebens on X (Twitter)</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.woocommerce.com">WooCommerce Developer Resources</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/woocommerce/woocommerce/discussions">WooCommerce on GitHub</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.woocommerce.com/2024/07/23/woocommerce-in-2024-and-beyond-roadmap-update/">WooCommerce in 2024 and beyond: Roadmap update</a></li>



<li><a href="https://developer.woocommerce.com/category/roadmap-insights/">Roadmap Insights</a></li>
</ul>



<p><strong>Chapter Titles with Timestamps</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>00:00&nbsp;Introduction and Welcome</li>



<li>00:38&nbsp;Beau Lebens&#8217; Journey at Automattic</li>



<li>02:38&nbsp;The Evolution of WooCommerce</li>



<li>05:14&nbsp;WooCommerce as an Ecosystem</li>



<li>10:18&nbsp;Challenges and Responsibilities in WooCommerce Development</li>



<li>16:49&nbsp;High Performance Order Storage (HPOS)</li>



<li>25:00&nbsp;Open Source Dynamics in WooCommerce</li>



<li>28:16&nbsp;Understanding Performance Bottlenecks</li>



<li>28:28&nbsp;WooCommerce and Hosting Ecosystem</li>



<li>29:03&nbsp;Commerce and Content: A Performance Perspective</li>



<li>30:01&nbsp;Engineering Challenges and Merchant Experience</li>



<li>31:12&nbsp;WooCommerce&#8217;s Evolution and Stronger Defaults</li>



<li>34:49&nbsp;Business Services and Holistic Merchant Support</li>



<li>36:59&nbsp;Interplay Between WooCommerce and WordPress</li>



<li>41:41&nbsp;Future Directions for WooCommerce Builders</li>



<li>46:27&nbsp;Guidance for WooCommerce Product Companies</li>
</ul>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 15 Oct 2024 09:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:3;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:57:"WPTavern: Jetpack 13.9.1 Patches a Critical Security Flaw";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=175212";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:68:"https://wptavern.com/jetpack-13-9-1-patches-a-critical-security-flaw";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2144:"<p><a href="https://jetpack.com/blog/jetpack-13-9-1-critical-security-update/">Jetpack 13.9.1</a>, a critical security update, was released yesterday to fix a vulnerability in the Contact Form feature that had been present since 2016. This flaw allowed logged-in users of a site to access forms submitted by visitors.</p>



<p>The vulnerability was discovered during an internal security audit, prompting the Jetpack team to collaborate with the WordPress.org Security Team to release patches for all versions of Jetpack dating back to 3.9.9.</p>



<img width="2158" height="744" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-33.png" alt="Full list of the 101 different versions of Jetpack released yesterday." class="wp-image-175217" />



<p>The Jetpack team also warned: “We have no evidence that this vulnerability has been exploited in the wild. However, now that the update has been released, it is possible that someone will try to take advantage of this vulnerability.”</p>



<p>Wordfence team <a href="https://www.wordfence.com/threat-intel/vulnerabilities/wordpress-plugins/jetpack/jetpack-1391-missing-authorization-to-authenticated-subscriber-sensitive-information-disclosure">shared</a> that the plugin is “vulnerable to unauthorized access of data due to missing capability checks in the Contact_Form_Endpoint class in various versions version up to, but not including, 13.9.1. This makes it possible for authenticated attackers, with subscriber-level access and above, to read all Jetpack form submissions on the site.”&nbsp;</p>



<p>The vulnerability has been given a CVSS score of 4.3, and users are advised to update to Jetpack 13.9.1 to secure their websites.&nbsp;</p>



<p>The Jetpack team reassured users, stating, “We will continue to regularly audit all aspects of our codebase to ensure that your Jetpack site remains safe.”&nbsp;</p>



<p><strong>Update</strong>: <a href="https://wpscan.com/plugin/jetpack/">WPScan</a> will share the Proof of Concept on November 11, 2024, to give users time to update. The vulnerability was reported by their researcher Marc Montpas. </p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 15 Oct 2024 04:02:57 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:4;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:29:"WPTavern: HeroPress Turns Ten";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=175202";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:40:"https://wptavern.com/heropress-turns-ten";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2520:"<p><a href="https://heropress.com/">HeroPress</a>, launched by Topher DeRosia, has <a href="https://heropress.com/ten-years-of-heropress/">turned ten</a>. Born from the idea of amplifying the voices of those who have overcome significant challenges, HeroPress has spent the last decade celebrating the diverse and inspiring journeys of people who have found strength, opportunity, and success through their connection with WordPress.</p>



<p>At its core, HeroPress is about storytelling. It showcases the personal and professional journeys of individuals from all walks of life, connected by their use of WordPress.</p>



<p>Back in 2015, HeroPress had hit a snag following failure to<a href="https://wptavern.com/heropress-fails-to-attract-backers-cancels-kickstarter-campaign-ahead-of-deadline"> attract backers</a> but this didn&#8217;t stop Topher. So rather than releasing videos with translations as originally planned, he opted for text-based essays, which are easier and more cost-effective to create, translate, and download over low bandwidth.</p>



<p><a href="https://heropress.com/essays/finding-your-place/">Andrey “Rarst” Savchenko</a> wrote the first essay for HeroPress, and over time, it has become a beacon of hope for those seeking inspiration.</p>



<a href="https://x.com/hellofromTonya/status/1844835198283743394"><img width="2412" height="1064" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-34.png" alt="" class="wp-image-175222" /></a>



<p>The global reach of HeroPress is reflected in the incredible diversity of its contributors: 278 essays have been published in 29 languages from 66 countries, featuring 136 women, 134 men, and 3 non-binary individuals.</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>HeroPress has been a blessing in my life for ten years now. It has been a deep deep privilege to share the stories of WordPress with the world.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Topher DeRosia</p>
</blockquote>



<p>As HeroPress turns 10, it’s also looking for <a href="https://heropress.com/donate/">financial support</a>. “HeroPress isn’t just a website — it’s a platform that brings hope and connection to the global WordPress community. Your financial support ensures that we can keep sharing these stories, helping to inspire more people through the power of WordPress,” said Topher DeRosia.</p>



<p>You can also <a href="https://heropress.com/contribute/">share your WordPress story </a>with HeroPress.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 15 Oct 2024 03:55:32 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:5;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:40:"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.7 Beta 3";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17984";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:56:"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/wordpress-6-7-beta-3/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:8271:"<p id="block-3cf2f536-f167-464f-a4ba-07f45105e476">WordPress 6.7 Beta 3 is now ready for testing!</p>



<p id="block-b65e3bf0-0494-4039-a701-f21e505600ad"><strong>This beta version of the WordPress software is under development</strong>. Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, it is recommended you evaluate Beta 3 on a test server and site.</p>



<p id="block-e904322b-c488-4166-8312-0b769067b943">You can test WordPress 6.7 Beta 3 in four ways:</p>



<table class="has-fixed-layout"><tbody><tr><th>Plugin</th><td>Install and activate the <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/">WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin on a WordPress install. (Select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream).</td></tr><tr><th>Direct Download</th><td>Download the <a href="https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.7-beta3.zip">Beta 3 version (zip)</a> and install it on a WordPress website.</td></tr><tr><th>Command Line</th><td>Use the following <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/cli/">WP-CLI</a> command:<br /><code>wp core update --version=6.7-beta</code>3</td></tr><tr><th>WordPress Playground</th><td>Use the <a href="https://playground.wordpress.net/#%7B%20%22preferredVersions%22:%20%7B%20%22php%22:%20%228.0%22,%20%22wp%22:%20%22https://playground.wordpress.net/plugin-proxy.php?build-ref=11b364fbffbab28d9127be91ee2d48f6645a6509%22%20%7D,%20%22features%22:%20%7B%20%22networking%22:%20true%20%7D,%20%22steps%22:%20%5B%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22login%22,%20%22username%22:%20%22admin%22,%20%22password%22:%20%22password%22%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wpaccessibility/a11y-theme-unit-test/master/a11y-theme-unit-test-data.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WordPress/theme-test-data/master/themeunittestdata.wordpress.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22query-monitor%22%20%7D,%20%22options%22:%20%7B%20%22activate%22:%20false%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22create-block-theme%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22debug-bar%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22health-check%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22test-reports%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22user-switching%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D%20%5D%20%7D">6.7 Beta 3 WordPress Playground instance</a> to test the software directly in your browser without the need for a separate site or setup. </td></tr></tbody></table>



<p id="block-93b754f0-e211-47b7-ac89-349d85c2f02f">The current target date for the final release of WordPress 6.7 is <strong>November 12, 2024</strong>. Get an overview of the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/">6.7 release cycle</a>, and check the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/">Make WordPress Core blog</a> for <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-7/">6.7-related posts</a> in the coming weeks for more information.</p>



<p id="block-7b5d791d-225a-4623-83ee-19a586c7094b"><strong>Catch up on what&#8217;s new in WordPress 6.7</strong>: Read the <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/wordpress-6-7-beta-1/">Beta 1</a> and <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/wordpress-6-7-beta-2/">Beta 2</a> announcements for details and highlights.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="block-f1abd396-a019-4c9a-bcb8-9ac381a61ca1">How to test this release</h2>



<p id="block-92dfcab6-d2a8-4753-84ce-8ef7b6dd1e90">Your help testing the WordPress 6.7 Beta 3 version is key to ensuring everything in the release is the best it can be. While testing the upgrade process is essential, trying out new features is equally important. <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/10/01/help-test-wordpress-6-7/">This detailed guide</a> will walk you through testing features in WordPress 6.7.</p>



<p id="block-6519fad7-59ea-45f1-9b8f-ca14c09c865d">If you encounter an issue, please report it to the Alpha/Beta area of the support forums or directly to <a href="https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket">WordPress Trac</a> if you are comfortable writing a reproducible bug report. You can also check your issue against a list of <a href="https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major">known bugs</a>.</p>



<p id="block-4bd66b13-6784-4a4f-bb7a-b4dab8e5fc12">Curious about testing releases in general? Follow along with the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/">testing initiatives in Make Core</a> and join the <a href="https://wordpress.slack.com/messages/core-test/">#core-test channel</a> on <a href="https://wordpress.slack.com/">Making WordPress Slack</a>.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="block-67b6a6c7-a95e-4b27-8946-a66d15105cb7">Vulnerability bounty doubles during Beta/RC</h2>



<p id="block-16175da3-84c9-45d0-b735-08a9d4453a14">Between Beta 1, released on October 1, 2024, and the final Release Candidate (RC) scheduled for November 5, 2024, the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/security/2024/02/12/welcoming-2024-with-wordpress-6-5-beta-1/">monetary reward for reporting new, unreleased security vulnerabilities</a> is doubled. Please follow responsible disclosure practices as detailed in the project’s security practices and policies outlined on the <a href="https://hackerone.com/wordpress">HackerOne page</a> and in the <a href="https://wordpress.org/about/security/">security white paper</a>.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="block-14306771-b240-4e15-948f-7504757bbb61">Beta 3 updates and highlights</h2>



<p id="block-93917d31-4478-45b5-b71c-1c8a1f49cc65">WordPress 6.7 Beta 3 contains more than 26 Editor updates and fixes since the Beta 2 release, including 18 tickets for WordPress core.</p>



<p id="block-ffdc1220-c2f5-4c23-982b-60c366c629d1">Each beta cycle focuses on bug fixes; more are on the way with your help through testing. You can browse the technical details for all issues addressed since Beta 3 using these links:</p>



<ul id="block-3fcf78c7-bebc-42e1-96f6-8b605ea23aae" class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/commits/wp/6.7?since=2024-10-09&until=2024-10-14">GitHub commits for 6.7</a> since October 9, 2024</li>



<li><a href="https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&changetime=10%2F09%2F2024..10%2F14%2F2024&milestone=6.7&col=id&col=milestone&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&order=id">Closed Trac tickets</a> since October 9, 2024</li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="block-c414b25e-802f-4f29-a31c-9e13394a4947">A Beta 3 haiku</h2>



<p id="block-a0f155a2-19b3-4645-a516-c7ae56541e5f">Code in motion hums,<br />New features bloom, bugs retreat,<br />6.7 calls.</p>



<p id="block-014ab749-322b-44bd-bf4f-bf5817d90bfd"><em>Props to <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>joedolson</a> and </em><a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffpaul/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>jeffpaul</a><em> for proofreading and review, and haiku from <a href="https://wordpress.slack.com/team/U030RHV73" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@colorful-tones</a></em>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 15 Oct 2024 00:30:07 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"David Baumwald";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:6;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:71:"WordCamp Central: Beyond the Savannah: Join Us at WordCamp Nairobi 2024";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:39:"https://central.wordcamp.org/?p=8222797";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:95:"https://central.wordcamp.org/news/2024/10/beyond-the-savannah-join-us-at-wordcamp-nairobi-2024/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:8394:"<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Introduction</h1>



<p>Kenya, a land of breathtaking contrasts, is renowned for its abundant wildlife, vibrant cultures, and welcoming smiles. In the heart of this diverse landscape lies Nairobi City, famously known as the Silicon Savannah—home to one of Africa’s most dynamic and engaging WordPress communities. In the midst of all this, WordCamp Nairobi 2024 will be held, marking the 8th annual gathering of WordPress enthusiasts, developers, and innovators in Kenya.</p>



<p>This November, the Kenyan WordPress community invites you to join us in ‘The City Under the Sun’ as we come together for two days of learning, collaboration, and connection. WordCamp Nairobi 2024 promises to be a celebration of creativity, innovation, and the limitless possibilities of WordPress in Africa and beyond.</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">The 2024 Theme:</h1>



<a href="https://central.wordcamp.org/files/2024/10/Blog-Image-3.jpg"><img width="1024" height="640" tabindex="0" src="https://central.wordcamp.org/files/2024/10/Blog-Image-3-1024x640.jpg" alt="" class="wp-image-8223263" /></a>



<p><strong><em>&#8216;Beyond the Savannah: Connecting the Kenyan WordPress Community to the World&#8217;</em></strong></p>



<p>Our theme this year, “Beyond the Savannah”, symbolizes our commitment to expanding horizons and exploring WordPress&#8217;s limitless possibilities. We aim to bridge the gap between the Kenyan WordPress community and the international stage, fostering collaboration, knowledge sharing, and growth.</p>



<p>Just as the Kenyan savanna is a vast and diverse landscape, so too is the world of WordPress. Our theme encourages us to venture beyond our comfort zones and discover new opportunities for growth and innovation.</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">When Will it Happen and Where?</h1>



<p>WordCamp Nairobi 2024 will take place on <strong>November 1st and 2nd, 2024</strong> at the <strong>Daystar University, Nairobi Campus Towers</strong>, located in the heart of Nairobi. This venue offers modern facilities and stunning views of the city skyline, providing an inspiring backdrop for two days of learning and networking.</p>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f3db.png" alt="🏛" class="wp-smiley" /> Exciting News! WordCamp Nairobi 2024 will be at Daystar University, Nairobi Campus! This innovative venue is perfect for networking and learning.<br /><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/23f3.png" alt="⏳" class="wp-smiley" /> Don’t wait! Limited tickets available—secure yours now! <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f39f.png" alt="🎟" class="wp-smiley" /><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f449.png" alt="👉" class="wp-smiley" /> <a href="https://t.co/uCHLG4QqdB">https://t.co/uCHLG4QqdB</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WCNBO24?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WCNBO24</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordPress</a>  <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DaystarUniversity?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#DaystarUniversity</a> <a href="https://t.co/ZxGgTcCagg">pic.twitter.com/ZxGgTcCagg</a></p>&mdash; WordPress Kenya (@WordPress_Kenya) <a href="https://twitter.com/WordPress_Kenya/status/1844730970311631037?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2024</a></blockquote>
</div>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">What to Expect: Speakers and Sessions</h1>



<p>WordCamp Nairobi 2024 will feature a diverse lineup of local and international speakers, each bringing unique insights and expertise to the event. From experienced developers to creative designers, content creators, and entrepreneurs, our speakers will cover a wide range of topics relevant to the WordPress community.</p>



<p>You can expect sessions on beginner workshops, advanced development, design and UX talks, business and marketing strategies, case studies, and much more.</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Sponsorship Opportunities</h1>



<p>WordCamp Nairobi 2024 is made possible thanks to the generous support of sponsors. We offer a range of sponsorship opportunities that allow your brand to be part of the event while supporting the local WordPress community. <strong><a href="https://nairobi.wordcamp.org/2024/sponsors/call-for-sponsors/">Become a sponsor today</a></strong> and help us make this event accessible to everyone.</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Nairobi Vibes and Accommodation</h1>



<p>Nairobi, often called the “Green City in the Sun,” is a vibrant fusion of cultures, energy, and modernity. From its rich cultural heritage and diverse people to local cuisines, buzzing nightlife, dynamic art and music scenes, lush nature parks, and bustling shopping hubs, Nairobi offers a unique blend of experiences. As a hub of <strong>tech and innovation</strong>, and with its pleasant year-round weather, Nairobi has something for everyone.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re traveling from outside Nairobi, there are several accommodation options near the venue, ranging from budget-friendly hotels to more luxurious stays. We recommend booking early to secure the best rates and proximity to Daystar University. <a href="https://nairobi.wordcamp.org/2024/travel/accomodation/"><strong>Click here for detailed accommodation information</strong></a></p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Tickets</h1>



<p>Tickets for WordCamp Nairobi 2024 are now available! We offer <strong>General Admission</strong>, <strong>Microsponsor Support, </strong>and<strong> Student Admission</strong> tickets, ensuring that there’s a suitable option for everyone. All tickets include 2-day access to sessions, workshops, food, drinks, swag, and more. <strong><a href="https://nairobi.wordcamp.org/2024/tickets/">Get your tickets now</a></strong> and join us for an unforgettable experience!</p>



<h1 class="wp-block-heading">Join Us at WordCamp Nairobi 2024!</h1>



<p>WordCamp Nairobi 2024 is shaping up to be an unforgettable event filled with learning, collaboration, and exciting opportunities to connect with the WordPress community. Whether you&#8217;re new to WordPress or a seasoned professional, there’s something for everyone. From insightful sessions to hands-on workshops, networking with peers, and celebrating the unique energy of Nairobi, this event promises to be a highlight of the year.</p>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WordPress lovers, it's time! Grab your tickets for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampNairobi2024?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordCampNairobi2024</a> NOW! <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f39f.png" alt="🎟" class="wp-smiley" /> Don’t miss out on this incredible opportunity!<br />Click to book <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f449.png" alt="👉" class="wp-smiley" /><a href="https://t.co/O3tFfLDcU2">https://t.co/O3tFfLDcU2</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WNBO24?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WNBO24</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordPress</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TechEvents?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TechEvents</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NairobiTech?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NairobiTech</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WebDevelopment?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WebDevelopment</a> <a href="https://t.co/GsE5aQFHvl">pic.twitter.com/GsE5aQFHvl</a></p>&mdash; WordPress Kenya (@WordPress_Kenya) <a href="https://twitter.com/WordPress_Kenya/status/1835704120864276554?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 16, 2024</a></blockquote>
</div>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Contact Us: nairobi@wordcamp.org</li>



<li>Our Website: <a href="https://nairobi.wordcamp.org/2024/">https://nairobi.wordcamp.org/2024/</a></li>



<li>Tickets Info: <a href="https://nairobi.wordcamp.org/2024/tickets/">https://nairobi.wordcamp.org/2024/tickets/</a>&nbsp;</li>



<li>Sponsorship Opportunities: <a href="https://nairobi.wordcamp.org/2024/sponsors/call-for-sponsors/">https://nairobi.wordcamp.org/2024/sponsors/call-for-sponsors/</a>&nbsp;</li>



<li>Join the Talks: #WCN24 #WordCampNairobi #WordPressKenya</li>
</ul>



<p></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 14 Oct 2024 19:08:25 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Jeremy Kabaya";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:7;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:67:"Do The Woo Community: Team Members Video, During a Call, Off or On?";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:43:"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=86083";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:68:"https://dothewoo.io/blog/team-members-video-during-a-call-off-or-on/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7945:"<p>As an agency or a service, you are on Zoom, Google Meets, etc. having those calls with your team. Small and large.</p>



<p>The question is. </p>



<p>Should there be a rule for video on or off?</p>



<p>There were a couple of things that prompted this thought with me. One was a podcast episode from <strong>Woo AgencyChat</strong> and another from a post our host Katie Keith shared on X.</p>



<img width="1024" height="526" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/2024-10-13-1.32.45%E2%80%AFPM.png?resize=1024%2C526&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-86086" />



<p><a href="https://x.com/KatieKeithBarn2/status/1844018227736625500">You can see all the replies and the conversation here. </a></p>



<p>Here is a summary of those responses.</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Mixed rules depending on context:</strong> Some companies have expectations for cameras to be on during scheduled meetings but allow flexibility for unscheduled or informal calls. For example, some prefer cameras on for important discussions, but may allow them off in situations like unscheduled meetings or when someone is not prepared.</li>



<li><strong>Cultural expectations:</strong> Many teams don&#8217;t have strict rules but generally encourage cameras to be on. Some teams naturally default to cameras on because it&#8217;s become part of the company culture, while others leave it to individual preference.</li>



<li><strong>Flexibility is key:</strong> Several respondents suggest a &#8220;soft rule&#8221; where cameras are encouraged but exceptions are understood (e.g., someone is unwell, internet issues, or self-consciousness). Some also suggested having cameras on at the start to ensure attention but allowing them off later.</li>



<li><strong>Cameras for communication:</strong> Many argue that having the camera on improves communication, trust, and engagement by allowing facial cues to be seen, though some disagree and suggest that it’s not always necessary for effective communication.</li>



<li><strong>Empathy and personal boundaries:</strong> Some responses highlight the importance of understanding personal preferences and comfort levels. Leaders are advised to meet people where they are and not force cameras on, which could create pressure or anxiety.</li>



<li><strong>Job context matters:</strong> For specific situations like interviews or client-facing calls, many agree that cameras should be on. However, for internal team meetings, it&#8217;s seen as less critical unless it helps foster better engagement.</li>



<li><strong>Respect and engagement:</strong> There’s a sentiment that having the camera on is a way of showing respect to the team and being fully present in meetings, as it helps with connection and understanding.</li>



<li><strong>Other considerations:</strong> Some suggested improving audio quality or offering a compromise like sharing a headshot if the camera is off. Others mentioned that if cameras are optional, it can create misunderstandings, and there should be clarity on expectations.</li>
</ol>



<div class="wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-5 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p class="has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-f0a1ab971f9dce87252b162a11a595d4">Thanks to our sponsor&#8230;</p>



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<h3 class="wp-block-heading">And then there are cases like this. </h3>



<p>He had&nbsp;<strong>Joe Riviello, founder of Zen Agency</strong> on Woo AgencyChat. He is also a cardiovascular perfusionist while running his agency.</p>



<p>Joe talked about a very interesting situation around the case of, video off or on.</p>



<p>&#8220;The majority of my staff, our leadership, is very experienced. I try to vet everyone who comes through the door, all of our staff, and I try to hire people who have many years of experience&#8230;. About two weeks ago, we hired a gentleman—I won’t say any names—who was really an experienced SEO. He wasn’t really in the whole e-commerce realm but was an experienced SEO. That’s a portion that we’re really trying to build out in our agency. We see good opportunities there, especially utilizing AI in that space. </p>



<p>So anyway, we hired this guy. I vetted him, I hired him, and he started last week. Everything seemed to be going great. I was on vacation last week, so I didn’t really get any face-to-face time with him, but this week I did. I had face-to-face time with him yesterday, along with the rest of my marketing team. We had a group meeting, and his face wasn’t on the Google Meet, though it normally was when I was interviewing him and discussing the role. Anyway, I could tell something was not right; I could just tell. As we were in the meeting, I went into my G Suite, and I looked up his IP address and saw an IP address from the Philippines.</p>



<p>So that raised a red flag. I asked him to show his face, and he wouldn’t show his face. He said he had to restart his computer. So I said, “Well, you know what? Instead of showing your face, just tell me your birthday,” because I knew his birthday from a background check that we ran on him. He couldn’t say his birthday. He just dropped off. </p>



<p>So immediately at that moment, I picked up my phone and called this guy, and he answered the phone while he was in the meeting with me. “Hey Joe, how’s it going?” So I knew something was up, and I would not stop, man. I just kept grinding, trying to get it out of him. It turns out he was working a couple of different jobs in the same role, but who knows if it was even him doing the work or not. </p>



<p>I know one of his previous employers— it definitely was not him doing the work because I phoned them, and now apparently he no longer has a job there either.&#8221; So again, I’m not going to mention any names, but that was an interesting day yesterday and part of my morning today.&#8221;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">A unique case but&#8230;</h3>



<p>Now I admit this is not typical, and also this was a recent hire. But still, one can have definitive ideas of video camera etiquette, and you still need to be prepared for those unusual moments. Also, a great lesson learning in hiring remotely.</p>



<p>You can read the transcript or listen to the full episode, <strong><a href="https://dothewoo.io/balancing-careers-and-agency-evolution-with-joe-riviello/">Balancing Careers and Agency Evolution with Joe Riviello</a></strong></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 14 Oct 2024 11:52:59 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:8;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:63:"WPTavern: State of Enterprise WordPress 2024 Survey is Now Open";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=175111";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:74:"https://wptavern.com/state-of-enterprise-wordpress-2024-survey-is-now-open";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2103:"<p>The 2024 <a href="https://soewp.com/">State of Enterprise WordPress Survey</a> is now open. This marks the second year Big Bite, a UK-based enterprise WordPress agency, is conducting this survey.</p>



<p>Last year, over 100 prominent organizations using WordPress, including Macy’s, New Statesman Media Group, and The Times, participated. The <a href="https://soewp.com/2023-report/">2023 report</a> highlighted how enterprises monetize their websites, with 9 out of 10 respondents planning to continue using WordPress due to high satisfaction. Additionally, nearly three-quarters of the brands surveyed rated the return on investment from their WordPress sites as good or excellent.</p>



<p>This year’s survey aims to build on these insights by gathering more data on usage patterns, customization trends, budget allocations, and the challenges enterprise brands face with WordPress. The survey takes about 6 minutes to complete and covers topics such as enterprise profiles, WordPress usage and selection, costs, maintenance, and future plans of enterprises.</p>



<p>Iain McPherson, CEO of Big Bite, commented: “The findings from the 2023 survey paint a very positive picture of enterprise WordPress, with almost three quarters of respondents stating that they’d be very likely to recommend the platform to other large-scale organizations. This signals that we’ll see even more major brands adopting WordPress in the coming months and years, however it’s crucial that we don’t rest on our laurels.&#8221;</p>



<p>He continued, &#8221; By releasing State of Enterprise WordPress as an annual report, we want to create an ongoing dialogue with as many enterprise users as possible, ensuring that the wider WordPress ecosystem can continue to evolve and meet the needs of large-scale brands.”</p>



<p>Enterprise organizations using WordPress or those with an enterprise-level solution are invited to <a href="https://bigbitesurveys.typeform.com/soewp2024">take the survey</a> and share their experiences through the end of October. All responses will remain confidential.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 14 Oct 2024 04:35:27 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:9;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:64:"WPTavern: ACF Plugin Forked to ‘Secure Custom Fields’ Plugin";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=175027";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:69:"https://wptavern.com/acf-plugin-forked-to-secure-custom-fields-plugin";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13647:"<p>Yesterday, WordPress co-founder Matt Mullenweg <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/secure-custom-fields/">announced</a> the forking of the Advanced Custom Fields (ACF) plugin into a new plugin called <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/">Secure Custom Fields</a>.</p>



<p>In the announcement, he stated: “On behalf of the <a href="https://wordpress.org/about/security/">WordPress security team</a>, I am announcing that we are invoking <a href="https://github.com/wordpress/wporg-plugin-guidelines/blob/trunk/guideline-18.md">point 18 of the plugin directory guidelines</a> and are forking Advanced Custom Fields (ACF) into a new plugin, Secure Custom Fields. <strong>SCF has been updated to remove commercial upsells and fix a security problem</strong>.”</p>



<a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-org/detailed-plugin-guidelines/#18-we-reserve-the-right-to-maintain-the-plugin-directory-to-the-best-of-our-ability"><img width="2104" height="1526" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-30.png" alt="Point 18 of Plugin Directory Guidelines " class="wp-image-175066" /></a>Point 18 of Plugin Directory Guidelines 



<p>The post went on to explain, “<strong>This update is as minimal as possible to fix the security issue. </strong>Going forward, Secure Custom Fields is now a <strong>non-commercial plugin</strong>, and if any developers want to get involved in maintaining and improving it, please get in touch. Similar situations have happened before, but not at this scale. This is a rare and unusual situation brought on by WP Engine’s legal attacks, we do not anticipate this happening for other plugins.”</p>



<img width="2110" height="1448" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-25.png" alt="SCF Plugin Changelog" class="wp-image-175053" />SCF Plugin Changelog



<a href="https://x.com/WordPress/status/1845180875798884632"><img width="2110" height="798" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-29.png" alt="" class="wp-image-175060" /></a>



<p>The ACF plugin is popular among web developers for its capabilities in customizing edit screens and managing custom field data. However, it has become <a href="https://wptavern.com/impact-of-wpengines-ban-on-acf-plugin">embroiled in a dispute between Automattic and WP Engine</a>, its owner. Following <a href="https://wptavern.com/wp-engine-banned-from-using-wordpress-org-resources">WP Engine&#8217;s ban</a>, the ACF team was <a href="https://x.com/wp_acf/status/1841843084700598355">blocked</a> from accessing WordPress dot org on October 03, 2024.</p>



<p>Next, Automattic tweeted about a vulnerability in the plugin. The tweet was later deleted. In response, the ACF team released <a href="https://www.advancedcustomfields.com/blog/acf-6-3-8-security-release/">ACF 6.3.8</a>, a routine security release stating, “WP Engine remains blocked from accessing our plugins on the .org plugin repository and therefore this update has been shipped to WP Engine’s repository and to the ACF website.”, they said.</p>



<p>The ACF team also provided a copy of this update to the WordPress.org Security team, which posted it to the plugin repository.</p>



<p>On October 9, a <a href="https://wptavern.com/wordpress-org-login-gets-mandatory-affiliation-checkbox-following-wp-engine-dispute">mandatory affiliation checkbox</a> was added to the WordPress.org login. Users could access their accounts only after confirming, “I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way, financially or otherwise.”</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">WP Engine Reacts</h3>



<p>WP Engine <a href="https://x.com/wp_acf/status/1845169499064107049">tweeted</a>: “We have been made aware that the Advanced Custom Fields plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress dot org. A plugin under active development has never been unilaterally and forcibly taken away from its creator without consent in the 21 year history of WordPress&#8230; This essential community promise has been violated, and we ask everyone to consider the ethics of such an action, and the new precedent that has been set.”  </p>



<p>They <a href="https://x.com/wp_acf/status/1845247349276148208">added</a>: “We were saddened and appalled by Matt Mullenweg’s actions this morning appropriating the Advanced Custom Fields plugin that our ACF team has been actively developing for the WordPress community since 2011.”</p>



<p>In response, WordPress.org <a href="https://x.com/WordPress/status/1845179941727690824">noted</a> that this is not the first occurrence of such an incident: ”This has happened several times before, and in line with the <a href="https://github.com/wordpress/wporg-plugin-guidelines/blob/trunk/guideline-18.md">guidelines you agreed to by being in the directory</a>. Best of luck with your version. We&#8217;re looking forward to making ours amazing for our users, using the best GPL code available.” </p>



<p>In a <a href="https://www.advancedcustomfields.com/blog/acf-plugin-no-longer-available-on-wordpress-org/">blog post</a> on the ACF website, the team shared, “The change to our published distribution, and under our ‘slug’ which uniquely identifies the ACF plugin and code that our users trust in the WordPress.org plugin repository, is inconsistent with open source values and principles.&nbsp; The change made by Mullenweg is maliciously being used to update millions of existing installations of ACF with code that is unapproved and untrusted by the Advanced Custom Fields team.”</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>Advanced Custom Fields is a sophisticated plugin with over 200,000 lines of code, which we continually develop, enhance, support and invest in to meet the needs of our users across WordPress.  We’ve made 15+ releases over the past two years, since joining WP Engine, and added significant new functionality to the free plugin as well as continually improving performance and our security and testing practices to meet the ‘enterprise grade’ that our users deserve.”</p>



<p>Iain Poulson</p>
</blockquote>



<p>The post concludes, “Mullenweg’s actions are extraordinarily concerning and pose the grave risk of upending and irreparably harming the entire WordPress ecosystem.&nbsp; His attempt to unilaterally take control of this open platform that we and so many other plugin developers and contributors have relied on, in the spirit of sharing plugins for all, provides further evidence of his serious abuse of trust, manifold conflicts of interest, and breach of the promises of openness and integrity in the community.”</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Impact of the Fork&nbsp;</h3>



<p>This development does not affect WP Engine, Flywheel hosting, or ACF PRO customers. Free plugin users can choose to install <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/">Secure Custom Fields from the plugin directory</a> or the ACF 6.3.8 version from <a href="https://www.advancedcustomfields.com/blog/installing-and-upgrading-to-the-latest-version-of-acf/">advancedcustomfields.com</a>. For sites with auto-updates enabled through WordPress.org, the update will automatically transition them from Advanced Custom Fields to Secure Custom Fields.</p>



<p>The WordPress community is no stranger to forking; for instance, WordPress itself was forked from the b2/cafelog project, and ClassicPress was forked in response to the introduction of Gutenberg. However, the forking of the ACF plugin has sent shockwaves through the community, raising ethical questions about the decision.</p>



<p>Interestingly, the Securecustomfields.com domain currently redirects to the ACF website, as highlighted by <a href="https://x.com/kellie/status/1845232004750770636">Kellie Peterson</a> on X.</p>



<p>The community has expressed their support and criticisms about this forking.  The previous reviews of the ACF plugin are still visible under the <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/">Secure Custom Fields</a> plugin. Following the announcement, several members posted both positive and negative reviews about the plugin in the repository while others took to X.</p>



<a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/#reviews"><img width="500" height="369" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-20-500x369.png" alt="" class="wp-image-175044" /></a>SCF Reviews from Plugin Repository



<p>Colin Stewart <a href="https://x.com/cost_dev/status/1845213012954591601">tweeted</a>: “In light of today&#8217;s news, since I mentioned in my previous post that I&#8217;m a member of the WordPress Security Team before anyone asks me: No, I was not aware.” Justin Sainton also <a href="https://x.com/JS_Zao/status/1845245386862268521">tweeted </a>along the same lines: “I do not love it. (Speaking independently, as a member of the Plugin Review Team)”</p>



<p>Several people also pointed out that ACF&#8217;s logos are still there in the new plugin, while WP Engine logos are still in the assets folder, while others referred to the post published by the Plugin Review Team <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2021/02/16/reminder-forked-premium-plugins-are-not-permitted/">Forked Premium Plugins Are Not Permitted</a>.</p>



<a href="https://x.com/richardhyland/status/1845216757352468777"><img width="2890" height="978" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-21.png" alt="" class="wp-image-175046" /></a>



<a href="https://x.com/BFTrick/status/1845172736785850698"><img width="2888" height="1028" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-22.png" alt="" class="wp-image-175049" /></a>



<a href="https://x.com/techandtrading/status/1845467669727736099"><img width="1816" height="586" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-31.png" alt="" class="wp-image-175071" /></a>



<a href="https://x.com/DanielW_Kiwi/status/1845299674665865524"><img width="2926" height="1082" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-24.png" alt="" class="wp-image-175051" /></a>



<a href="https://x.com/interesting_op/status/1845187104516489466"><img width="2114" height="770" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-28.png" alt="" class="wp-image-175058" /></a>



<p>The creator of Ruby on Rails, David Heinemeier Hansson, published <a href="https://world.hey.com/dhh/open-source-royalty-and-mad-kings-a8f79d16">Open source royalty and mad kings</a>. WP And Legal Stuff published <a href="https://wpandlegalstuff.com/the-acfscf-fork-and-legal-risk/">ACF>SCF ‘fork’ and legal risk</a>. </p>



<p>Tim Nash, a WordPress security consultant, has published an <a href="https://timnash.co.uk/advisory-advanced-custom-fields-changes/">advisory about the ACF changes</a>, while James Giroux published <a href="https://jamesgiroux.ca/acf-gets-a-fork-by-wordpress-org/">ACF Gets A Fork By WordPress.org</a> where he says “While emotions are high, this move highlights the importance of maintaining the security and integrity of WordPress’s ecosystem. Forking under the GPL is not unprecedented, and this action reinforces the need for WP Engine/Silver Lake to negotiate in good faith.”</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Other Forks</h3>



<p>In a blog post titled <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/spoon/">Forking is Beautiful</a>, Matt mentioned two recent WordPress fork attempts &#8211; <strong>FreeWP &amp; AspirePress</strong>. </p>



<p>About Vinny Green&#8217;s <a href="https://freewp.com/">FreeWP</a>, Matt said: &#8220;We strongly encourage anyone who disagrees with the direction WordPress is headed in to join up with Vinny and create an amazing fork of WordPress. Viva FreeWP!&#8221;</p>



<p>In response, Vinny took to <a href="https://x.com/vinnysgreen/status/1844488053060141233">X to clarify</a>: &#8220;I love how I never said I was going to fork the project and only wanted to support those who did. Matt is incredible at only hearing the things he wants to hear. Thanks for the free promotion, I guess. We in the biz called that earned media.&#8221;</p>



<p>The <a href="https://freewp.com/faq/">FAQ section</a> in the FreeWP website has more details about the project: &#8220;To the best of our knowledge, it is a website that starts with “freewp” and ends with “.com”. Any further details are at the discretion of the individual who manages it.&#8221; </p>



<p>&#8220;What’s FreeWP then? Besides a more pleasant depiction of the domain? Its burgeoning project that is dedicated to the following mission: Coming soon. And not a fork.&#8221; </p>



<p>So you guessed its status! But you can sign up now to get updates. </p>



<p><a href="https://aspirepress.org/">AspirePress</a>, on the other hand, is a loosely collected group of volunteers that offer their support to the WordPress platform and it &#8220;exists to be a community of individuals focused on helping WordPress become the platform we all aspire for it to be.&#8221;</p>



<p>They are building a <a href="https://aspirepress.org/a-vision-for-aspirepress-and-a-community-run-org-mirror/">mirror of WP .org</a> and <a href="https://x.com/AspirePressOrg/status/1845280032228331818">tweeted</a>: &#8220;In case we have&#8217;t been crystal clear, we <strong>have not</strong> forked WordPress. Rumors to the contrary are exaggerations.&#8221;</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sun, 13 Oct 2024 17:57:12 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:10;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:120:"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog #109 – Gutenberg 19.4, Creating a Block Theme, Responsive Navigation Block Plugin";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:53:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=30411";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:89:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-109-a-responsive-navigation-block/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:68591:"<p>In this episode, Birgit Pauli-Haack and Anne Katzeff discuss Gutenberg 19.4, Creating a Block Theme, Responsive Navigation Block Plugin, and more.</p>



<p><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-109-a-responsive-navigation-block/#shownotes">Show Notes</a> / <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-109-a-responsive-navigation-block/#transcript">Transcript</a></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Editor:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/">Sandy Reed</a></li>



<li>Logo:&nbsp;<a href="https://markuraine.com/">Mark Uraine</a></li>



<li>Production:&nbsp;<a href="https://icodeforapurpose.com">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>
</ul>



<p class="has-larger-font-size" id="shownotes"><strong>Show Notes</strong></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Special guest: Anne Katzeff</h2>



<ul class="wp-block-social-links is-layout-flex wp-block-social-links-is-layout-flex"><li class="wp-social-link wp-social-link-linkedin  wp-block-social-link"><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/annekatzeff/" class="wp-block-social-link-anchor"><span class="wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text">LinkedIn</span></a></li>

<li class="wp-social-link wp-social-link-x  wp-block-social-link"><a href="https://x.com/ASKDesign2" class="wp-block-social-link-anchor"><span class="wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text">X</span></a></li>

<li class="wp-social-link wp-social-link-wordpress  wp-block-social-link"><a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/askdesign/" class="wp-block-social-link-anchor"><span class="wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text">WordPress</span></a></li>

<li class="wp-social-link wp-social-link-instagram  wp-block-social-link"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/annekatzeff_askdesign/" class="wp-block-social-link-anchor"><span class="wp-block-social-link-label screen-reader-text">Instagram</span></a></li></ul>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://www.askdesign.biz/blog/2024/01/building-my-first-wordpress-block-theme-part-1/">Building My First WordPress Block Theme &#8211; part 1</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.askdesign.biz/blog/2024/02/building-my-first-wordpress-block-theme-part-2-navigation/">Building My First WordPress Block Theme – part 2: Navigation</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.askdesign.biz/blog/2024/04/building-my-first-wordpress-block-theme-part-3-header/">Building My First WordPress Block Theme &#8211; part 3: Header</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.askdesign.biz/blog/2024/09/building-my-first-wordpress-block-theme-part-4-child-themes/">Building My First WordPress Block Theme – part 4: Child Themes</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Announcements</h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/wordpress-6-7-beta-2/">WordPress 6.7 Beta 2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/10/01/help-test-wordpress-6-7/">Help Test WordPress 6.7</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.wpgraphql.com/">WPGraphQL</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.wpgraphql.com/2024/10/07/wpgraphql-becomes-a-canonical-plugin-my-move-to-automattic">WPGraphQL Becomes a Canonical Plugin</a></li>



<li>Developer Hours: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lBIkf3xNDw">How to Simplify Client Editing in WordPress</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Community Contributions</h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/getdave-responsive-navigation-block/">Responsive Navigation Block</a> (Plugin) </li>



<li>Video: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5kzAaEsDMg">Responsive MOBILE MENU using the WORDPRESS Navigation block</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lKBhwFqAds">Video: WordPress Mobile Menus Fixed in 3 Minutes!</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Gutenberg 19.4</h2>



<p><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/10/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-9-31-may-2/">What’s new in Gutenberg 19.4? (9 Oct)</a></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">What’s in active development or discussed</h2>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Twenty-Twenty-Five Default Theme</h3>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/twentytwentyfive">GitHub repo</a></li>



<li><a href="https://2025.wordpress.net">Demo Site </a></li>
</ul>



<p class="has-large-font-size">Stay in Touch</p>



<div class="wp-block-group"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow">
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Did you like this episode? <a href="https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog"><strong>Please write us a review </strong></a></li>



<li>Ping us on X (formerly known as Twitter) or send DMs with questions. <a href="https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href="https://twitter.com/bph">@bph</a>.</li>



<li><em>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href="mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </em></li>



<li><em>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/">(Click here to learn how)</a></em></li>
</ul>
</div></div>



<p class="has-large-font-size" id="transcript"><strong>Transcript</strong></p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Hello and welcome to our 109th episode of the Gutenberg Changelog Podcast. In today&#8217;s episode, we will talk about Gutenberg 19.4, creating a block theme, Responsive Navigation Block plugin, and more.</p>



<p>I&#8217;m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and a full-time Core contributor for the WordPress Open Source Project sponsored by Automattic.</p>



<p>Today I&#8217;m delighted to team up with Anne Katzeff once more to spread the joy of WordPress. Anne is a theme developer who has embraced block themes and posts regularly in the Outreach channel with questions that helps others as well. Anne and I, we met in Florida, and we are co-organizers of the local WordPress Meetup. And she became a dear friend. Welcome to the show, Anne. How are you today?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Hi, Birgit. It&#8217;s great to see you. Always enjoy talking with you. I&#8217;m doing well today. Thank you. How about yourself?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>I&#8217;m doing well. I finally got over my cold. I might still sound a little horsey like the last episode, and I apologize for that. I didn&#8217;t know until I listened to how bad it actually was.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Creating a Block Theme<strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></h3>



<p>Yeah. So Anne, you shared your learning on building your first block theme in a series of blog posts. So let me go right in there. What were your biggest wins looking back in your approach of building themes?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: All right, let&#8217;s dive right in. As I was reviewing it, I realized that way back, the seed of it was being invited to be a test case for the Create Block Theme plugin. And a couple of folks on that development team zoomed in with me and watched me live use the plugin my first time using it. So I didn&#8217;t know anything, it was really interesting for all of us because there was this learning curve and they were trying not to interfere and ask questions. So I was a tester and they monitored me, and that experience gave me the confidence to start exploring block theme design. And so I was quickly a fan of the Create Block Theme plugin. The very first clear takeaway for me at that time, it was still part the font embedment was still part of that plugin, and it&#8217;s now been introduced into Core. And I think that&#8217;s part of what the plugin&#8217;s role is is to serve as an exploration platform. And those features that people really find useful are gradually taken into Core and become part of that.</p>



<p>So that was the first one. And then creating a child theme. So I&#8217;ve always created child themes, I know how to do them in various ways. But to just have that one button to do it was like, &#8220;Oh, yay.&#8221; And then I went through a series of pain points as I was starting to&#8230; I was actually working on a real site and doing all this for the first time with block themes. So I got familiar with Global Settings, and my first pain point was the content and wide measurements. I didn&#8217;t understand that, so I had to play around with that and wrap my brain around it. And then segueing from there into the group layout settings, that was a real pain point for me. It was like, &#8220;What? What are you talking about?&#8221; So all these new concepts. And for me to learn these things, I just play around. I&#8217;m not afraid to make mistakes, so I just try this, try that.</p>



<p>I got a feeling for how all those things work, found the connection between nested or group blocks and the width characteristics within them. And I realized, God, there&#8217;s so much flexibility in this building of block themes. So then I went on to navigation, another pain point for me. It really was a completely different way of constructing a menu. So that took a lot of exploration, a lot of challenges. And I think I figured it out logistically how to add the pages and posts. That wasn&#8217;t the problem. The problem was more how to style it. So in Global Settings you have your typography, your colors, and your layout. And I saw colors, links, just weren&#8217;t really applying to what was happening in the navigation. So I gradually discovered that you have to go into the template or rather the template part. Let me look at my notes because I had to review all this yesterday like, &#8220;Okay, so how does this work?&#8221;</p>



<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s styled in the block of a nav pattern, which is my process, and then that&#8217;s placed into a template.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So say that again. Your process is to create a pattern, put the navigation block in there, and then add that pattern to a header.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> To a header. Yeah. Right. So in case, because of the synced part of the pattern, we wanted to be able to edit it globally, I think. This is months ago, so I&#8217;m trying to remember what was it that I figured out.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> So I think that&#8217;s what I did. And I just sort of stumbled, gradually stumbled on to how to style the navigation and the hover. I think there may be a hover now, not positive about this, but at the time I had to use custom CSS.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. For the link, there is now a hover feature in the Global Style. So you could always do it via the theme.json file. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> True. Right.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haa</em>ck: So you kind of ventured out to create or design the theme right in the Site Editor. And kind of setting up your, first, your color palettes, then your typography, and then the layouts. So that&#8217;s the width that the wide widths kind of thing. And then you try to do the header and the navigation and everything in a child theme. Is that kind of….</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> You got it. Yeah. So theme.json was a new language for me. I know HTML and CSS, so I didn&#8217;t want to dive into that cold. So I&#8217;m using the full Site Editor as a bridge, and that was also part of my learning curve and my still part of my process is to use the full Site Editor, make all my customiza&#8230; or as many customizations in there that I can along with occasional CSS. See, I come into it with, I&#8217;m a custom CSS girl, but I realized quickly, &#8220;Oh, I don&#8217;t need to do that anymore. There&#8217;s really no need for that style CSS file aside from registering the theme.&#8221; So a little tweak in my process there. And finally, when things are looking good or a certain milestone, I&#8217;ll save the changes to the theme. Now, I had a lot of trepidation about doing this. I couldn&#8217;t breathe the first time I did it because I wasn&#8217;t sure what exactly is going to happen.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Is my theme going to go away?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Is my theme going to disappear? So I took the leap and did it, and then I exported that theme. And that was a big light bulb for me. Then I realized, &#8220;Oh, if I do that, then I can do version control.&#8221; Because I have control over the theme files. Once you save what&#8217;s done in the full Site Editor, once you save it to the theme, it takes those from the database and puts them into the theme files. That was the key for me. I&#8217;m still doing it that way. That&#8217;s where I&#8217;m at today.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So that&#8217;s where you are today. So did you create new templates for your theme or for that client site?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> I probably did. Let me see. Oh yeah, for the blog part, yes, I absolutely did. So I used Twenty Twenty Four as my parent theme, and it comes packaged with certain patterns and options for the blog.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Okay, yeah. And then now I understand it. So the child theme you took from Twenty Twenty-Four.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yes.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And then you modified it with the colors and the typography and all the others?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yes.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Cool, cool, cool. So the listeners, you can read up about that on Anne Katzeff&#8217;s blog where she has four parts and really goes into the details on how she managed the navigation and the header and why child theme and all that.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah. I wasn&#8217;t sure how many parts it would turn into.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Right.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: So I didn&#8217;t ever say part one of blah, blah, blah, but I think four parts, that&#8217;s it.</p>



<p>Birgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, right now, that&#8217;s what I found on your blog. I watched it kind of growing a bit and feeling that. You said that you had to try a lot of trial and error to kind of figure things out. How do you feel about creating your second block theme?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Much better, much more comfortable. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>What would you start first with? What would you start with?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: Well, strangely enough, the very first time I did all this, created my first block theme, I actually forgot to create the child theme. So I was moving along in Twenty Twenty Four, making all these modifications, and then I realized, &#8220;Oh, I have to make my child theme.&#8221; So I wasn&#8217;t sure again what will happen if I do that. So I basically started from scratch because I didn&#8217;t want to mess up anything. So now it&#8217;s so crazy, Birgit, because that&#8217;s always the first step for me is to create a child theme. And I know a lot of people just would take the parent theme Twenty Twenty Four, whatever it is they want to modify and run with it. And that&#8217;s a perfectly fine way to do it too. It&#8217;s just that I like to know that my customizations will stick if the Twenty Twenty Four theme is updated. And indeed it has been updated.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: What was the question? Oh, was it easier? Yes, definitely.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. And what would be your first step that&#8230; From the trial and error, what are the learnings kind of? How would you approach it now, apart from creating the child theme first?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: Yeah, I would do pretty much what I&#8217;ve already done the first time. So I&#8217;d go into the child theme is being modified. I&#8217;d go through the full Site Editor and modify my Global Settings, tackle my navigation almost right away probably after my Global Settings with typography, choosing the font and colors. And determining what that inner content width should be because I think the default is 840 maybe, and that&#8217;s a little too narrow for me. Yeah. So I make it a little bit wider. I try to stick with what works and not mess around too much.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So you want your theme to be connected with the Twenty Twenty-Four, so when that gets updated, your theme gets updated too, but you keep the modifications from-</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Exactly. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> But the Create Block Theme plugin also gives you two more choices. One is to clone the current theme.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Right.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So then you make it a new theme, which is not, it&#8217;s detached from Twenty Twenty-Four. And the other one is that you can start a theme from scratch. It&#8217;s not entirely from scratch, but you get the bare minimum on templates and hardly any presets for that. So you can kind of go into the theme.json or in your Site Editor and start from a white background pretty much.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: Yep.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So you don&#8217;t have, I&#8217;m not quite sure what the trigger would be to actually use a child theme with that setting, because if you can clone it, then you get it. But then the updates from Twenty Twenty-Four, you wouldn&#8217;t get.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> I think I do it with client work as a good fallback for them, a safety net.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>If I were designing a theme to submit to the repository, I would probably use the clone feature and not worry so much about any updates because it would be a standalone theme. So that&#8217;s kind of the delineation for me.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Okay, cool. Yeah, no, I find that very interesting to talk to theme developers and how they&#8230; So what are the new concepts that you find easier now that you went through both of them? The classic theme, you&#8217;re a long time classic theme developer and now building block themes. What was the shift? Do you need to think a little bit differently with something?&nbsp;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Well, as a user of block themes, that was an easy transition for me. But yet clients still struggle with that. I think they get initially intimidated, and then once I do some tutorials with them, they go, &#8220;Oh, okay, I&#8217;m good.&#8221; But getting into the full Site Editor, there were several new concepts, primarily, like templates, I understood. But template parts and patterns, I wasn&#8217;t quite sure what is the exact difference here. And gradually I came to understand blocks are the place that we begin. We take a bunch of blocks to form patterns perhaps, and then we can reuse those patterns if they&#8217;re synced into the template parts. And the template parts are what form the layouts for the templates. So once I played around with all those different things, I understood the sequence. And they are building blocks, literally. And I also figured out, &#8220;Oh, template parts are actually mini templates.&#8221; They&#8217;re like little guys that could stand on their own maybe at some point in time.</p>



<p>So it all kind of started to fall into place. I got a nice comment this morning on part three of my blog series, which is about the header. And where I explain that pattern of blocks to patterns to template parts to templates. And the person appreciated the breakdown. I went, &#8220;Oh, I&#8217;m always relieved when people find value in what I say.&#8221; It&#8217;s like, &#8220;Okay, someone&#8217;s listening.&#8221; Someone like me, like Sally Field. So it was validating to get that feedback.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> So that was the big concept for me. And then little tweaks in the language with the Create Block Theme plugin. Some of the options at the very beginning are still there now. But I think the language was tweaked or maybe it was just my evolution because perhaps the saving changes to the theme was always there. Was it always there?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. That was a Core feature of the Create Block Theme that you could take everything out of the database into a theme and have it in the files.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> And it seems so straightforward now when we&#8217;re talking about it. And I think on some level I got it, but on another level I really didn&#8217;t. And so I was scared. I&#8217;m scared to do that, but then I….</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> You braved it.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> I did. And it&#8217;s like a miracle.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> The Outreach channel is a great place where we can almost talk directly with developers, including the wonderful Create Block Theme plugin team and get answers to our questions. No question seems to be a silly one in that Slack channel, which is nice.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, so dear listeners, I think we talked about it before with Jessica Lyschik as well, that the Outreach channel is definitely a place where you can meet a few of the developer theme builders and also block builders. And also I know that there are quite a few that hang out there, like Justin Tadlock and Nick Diego, myself and a few others. Yeah. I know that Rich Tabor once in a while kind of looks at some of the questions because it&#8217;s really important to figure out what is not working right or what is not explained right. And to find the difference about it, we need to have a conversation and that&#8217;s the place to have the conversation. So recently I had a conversation, it was not in the channel, but I realized that there is another way to&#8230; In the Site Editor on the right-hand side, when you create a template, you can also click on a design section underneath it, and then you get different ways to form the template.</p>



<p>And those are actually patterns, template patterns pretty much. So they have a theme, they have a template type, and then you say archive. So when you create a new archive template, you get a suggestion of a series of patterns if they&#8217;re with a theme. Yeah. And that was kind of really something that I had a hard time getting my head around. Where does it all live? And it lives in a pattern directory of a default theme. You will find them in the Twenty Twenty-Four. You also will find them in Twenty Twenty-Five. Yeah. So that&#8217;s another way of offering your theme users multiple ways to skin the cat or to display some of the things that you want to display on an archive page for a category or a single post template. And you have multiple patterns of those. Then you can offer them when they click on a new template or switch them up.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah. And then there are all those patterns on WordPress.org that you can just&#8230; If you&#8217;re logged in, it&#8217;s so easy you just copy it, I think, not remembering off the top of my head, but it&#8217;s a wonderful feature.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. It would be added to your Canvas. Yeah. I think the new Zoom Out&#8230; Have you tried it with the new Zoom Out view?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Oh, yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Oh, yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> What do you think about it?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Well, I have notes about that. Let me gather my thoughts here.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> You have notes about it.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah, I do because I had a lot of reactions to it. One last thought before we segue into that about the patterns. Not only are there some wonderful patterns that can be inspiring, but you can learn so much from their structure on how to do a layout. So there are multipurpose patterns out there. So the Zoom Out separator, I think it begins to address the issue of very cluttered UI, user interface. There&#8217;s a lot packed into the real estate here, and we&#8217;ve had ongoing discussions about it. You&#8217;ve got the left and right sidebars, the admin sidebar, the full Site Editor sidebar. And then if you open up the list view, you&#8217;ve got another sidebar, pop-up modals, dropdown sub-menus. It&#8217;s really hard to find your way and then remember where you are. So I think this feature is making strides, it still needs work.</p>



<p>So far from what I gather, it looks like just a one-step zoom. I had a thought initially. Wouldn&#8217;t it be cool if it were a magnifying kind of thing?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> I&#8217;m not sure if we need that, but it would be cool. And it&#8217;s almost currently a toggle on and off.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> We&#8217;re starting to get a number of view-related options I noticed, because that Zoom thing is tucked between several other icons up on that upper right corner, the display and other things.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, the preview.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> The preview. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>And I&#8217;m thinking when you reach a certain threshold of stuff that is related, can&#8217;t we find a way to group them and reduce that clutter?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> These are just some of the thoughts I had.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, you&#8217;re right.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: But the other thing that happened while I was looking at this and seeing all the work being done, there&#8217;s a great discussion on GitHub as this feature evolves. And to me it was such a wonderful example of WordPress collaborative teamwork.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Some snippets of the conversation are like, &#8220;During the act of dragging, everything else should be inert.&#8221; &#8220;Ah, yes.&#8221; And then another one. &#8220;We can be much better at changing the visual appearance of the Editor, highlighting drop zones, for instance.&#8221; &#8220;Ah.&#8221; It&#8217;s great stuff if you have the time to read through it. It just made me so appreciative of the details the….</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> That people think about. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>People are working really hard at this stuff.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>And it doesn&#8217;t take&#8230; It&#8217;s not a simple fix sometimes, it takes discussion and testing. So you&#8217;ve put the issue out there, there&#8217;s some discussion and then there&#8217;s testing, and then there&#8217;s resolution and tweaking, and it&#8217;s very cool. It made me really happy to be a part of it even as an observer.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, it&#8217;s a great description of how actually things are getting done in Gutenberg and how many people are kind of working on it and discussing it. So the Zoom Out view is right now, I think the biggest advantage is when you&#8217;re working with patterns and you&#8217;re trying to create a page with a subset of patterns. So you have a hero pattern, then you have a services pattern, and then you have a post pattern and you kind of want to assemble one page with all the different patterns. So you actually, and then afterwards&#8230; And that&#8217;s how you use the Zoom Out because it only highlights the sections. So it’s between the patterns. So you&#8217;re not putting a pattern inside another pattern, inside another pattern.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Right.</p>



<p>Birgit Pauli-Haack: Which I have done multiple times. And I said, &#8220;Well, I’ll get myself out of it again.&#8221; So I got a real trouble thing there.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And so for that, it is really good because then you can just&#8230; And there on the left-hand side with a Zoom Out, there are four or five action items that you can do. One is delete a full pattern, which is sometimes really difficult. And then you can move a pattern up and down just if you had it in the wrong place. Yeah. Those are the two things that I can remember for those.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah. Reducing the number of distractions.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes, that&#8217;s pretty much kind of a single purpose kind of zoom kind of thing. And when you&#8217;re done with all the patterns, you can zoom in again with clicking on the toggle again. And then manage all the single blocks that you have there now with the pattern. So yeah, changing the images, changing the headlines, changing the text, and you don&#8217;t have to worry about the patterns again. I think that&#8217;s right now the biggest advantage of using Zoom Out. I think it&#8217;s not particularly helpful in any other context right now, but it&#8217;s also, you can&#8217;t select a single block while in Zoom Out. You have to get out of Zoom Out before to do that. So it kind of separates the concerns a little bit and takes care of the overwhelm.&nbsp;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah, totally.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, there are I think 50 patterns in the Twenty Twenty-Five or so. So it&#8217;s really interesting to kind of move them around and mix and match them. Yeah. So yeah. Any other insights that you want to share with our listeners about your block theme building adventures before we go into our announcements and to the rest of the show?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Ooh, let&#8217;s see. While you were talking about all that, I was thinking about the navigation again. And now we mentioned there&#8217;s a new mobile option on that, which I have yet to explore, but I&#8217;ve been seeing posts about it on Twitter. So get ready, hold onto your hats. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, we are going to talk a little bit later about that. That&#8217;s a new plugin, a plugin to test things out, but we can talk about it now.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Community Contributions &#8211; Responsive Navigation Block</h3>



<p>So Dave Smith, who&#8217;s a Core contributor on Gutenberg and has actually worked on a Navigation Block quite a bit before, he&#8217;s now working on the Zoom Out, and he&#8217;s also a release lead for 6.7. He created a standalone plugin where you can have a Responsive Navigation Block. So it comes with two variations, a Navigation Block for desktop and a Navigation Block for mobile. And you can style them differently. So you need to install the plugin and then you can create the different Navigation Blocks for a certain header, what? Yeah, template.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Would it pick up automatically? It picks up the content from the regular navigation, desktop navigation?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: No, you need to design it. You need to design.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Is it a desktop or is it a mobile kind of thing?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And you can rename them as well. Yeah, so Dave did a longer video, 25 minutes. I haven&#8217;t watched it completely, but I will share the link to it in the show notes. I went for Jamie Marsland&#8217;s three-minute piece because it all came out today or yesterday kind of thing, so I didn&#8217;t get a chance to see it all.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> It&#8217;s hot off the press.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Hot off the press. Yes. So you install it and then you decide, &#8220;Okay, which one is the desktop? Which one&#8217;s the mobile?&#8221;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>And then you can give the mobile a different background or something like that. And then it picks up on the&#8230; And even when you look at the&#8230; edit the mobile Block, Navigation Block, it actually reduces the Canvas to a mobile size.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Oh, wow.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: So it&#8217;s also-</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: You get a preview.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> &#8230; that part of it. You get a preview of how it is.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Oh, nice.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So it&#8217;s also using some of the Zoom Out, Zoom In kind methods in the background.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Right. Oh, the mind, how it works. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So yeah, it&#8217;s kind of really interesting. Yeah. We share the link in the show notes and then also to the two videos so you can kind of learn more about it dear listeners.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: Now you were saying you can rename those menus.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> And that just sparked another memory for me because yesterday I think I wanted to rename a pattern and I wasn&#8217;t able to do it. I was like, &#8220;Really? I can&#8217;t rename a pattern.&#8221;</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Well, was it your own pattern? Or was it a pattern that came from the theme?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Well, it&#8217;s all mine now because it&#8217;s embedded in my child theme.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Right. But when you said, okay&#8230; If it&#8217;s in the theme, you probably are not able to. So you need to duplicate it first to rename it.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Oh.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Or you go into your files if you have them and rename it there because they don&#8217;t want&#8230; I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s something that you want to rename the pattern from your theme because when the update comes, it kind of will overwrite stuff again if it&#8217;s the same….</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Got you.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. So it&#8217;s kind of that one is definitely something to…</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Always something to experiment with. Yeah. Okay.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Announcements</h3>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. So we have announcements here.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> WordPress 6.7 Beta 2 has come out and is ready for testing. Remember final release is November 12th and it&#8217;s coming closer and closer. Now the WordPress test team also has some great instructions on how you can assist in testing the new versions. It&#8217;s in the Help Test WordPress 6.7 aptly titled post. It&#8217;s a long post, but it has a great table of contents menu where you can kind of pick the feature that you want to test and then you go in and get some nice instructions. First, a little explanation of how it&#8217;s supposed to work, and then some instructions, what you can do with it. I went through the theme testing instructions there. This is actually a great way to explore the new theme.&nbsp;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Absolutely.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> &#8230; some testing instructions. Yeah. So go ahead and start testing your own plugins and themes and everything if they&#8217;re compatible, how they&#8217;re compatible to 6.7. The release candidate is scheduled for October 20th. That&#8217;s also when the Field Guide comes out. So if you are waiting for the developer notes that come with a Field Guide, that&#8217;s the date to look out for. That&#8217;s also where all the developer related APIs have all the explanations in there. So are you looking forward to 6.7?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Sure.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Anything in particular?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Maybe. I don&#8217;t know off the top of my head. As we go through the enhancements, I&#8217;ll chime in.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. All right. Yeah. So there&#8217;s another development that I wanted to let you know about it. WPGraphQL, it&#8217;s a way to use GraphQL with WordPress Database and it&#8217;s mostly used for headless WordPress developers or by them. Jason Bahl has started working for Automattic and brings his WPGraphQL plugin with him and it&#8217;s going to be a canonical plugin, meaning it&#8217;s going to be a plugin that will be maintained by Core developers. So he&#8217;s back full-time working on the plugin, which he couldn&#8217;t do at WP Engine. So that is a great development out of that. And I remember 2018, or was it even &#8217;17? I think it was in 2018 that Jason Bahl developed or showcased his WPGraphQL plugin at WordCamp US. And that seems so far away again, now it&#8217;s about six years. Yeah. And having developed that since then almost full time, it&#8217;s really very robust. And a lot of enterprise level websites are actually built on top of it.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Ah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Because to integrate WordPress with other data and need to use WordPress for the content management or content creation. But the other website or the website that use that content is also connecting with other data.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Oh, wow.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So they needed a front-end on top of it that&#8217;s in JavaScript or any other maybe Next.js or something like that. But the WPGraphQL kind of connects all those pieces. It&#8217;s really cool.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Wow. Sounds cool.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. And there is a new Developer Hours on the schedule and it will change the broadcast method. So if you are a regular attendee of the Developer Hours every two weeks of the month, you had to go to Zoom first and then log in and had to be at Meetup first, then on Zoom first, and then you were able to kind of attend the Developer Hours. Now all these processes are shortened and it will be a live stream on the WordPress channel on YouTube. So you just kind of subscribe to that, it&#8217;s announced there. And I will share of course the link in the show notes. The next Developer Hours is happening on Tuesday, October 15th, and at 15:00 UTC. If my calculations are correct, that&#8217;s 5:00 P.M. Central Europe Time or 11:00 A.M. Eastern Time. And that&#8217;s directly from the YouTube channel. You don&#8217;t have to log in&#8230; You only have to log into YouTube, which you probably have an account for and then you can be participating in the chat.</p>



<p>So the topic is How to Simplify Client Editing in WordPress. And the description reads like, “Discover the full potential of WordPress Editor and Site Editor in these presentations designed to showcase the many ways you can simplify, curate the ways your clients edit content in WordPress. Will tackle a common challenge, creating a more controlled and user-friendly block editing experience that aligns with brand guidelines, limits user capabilities and prevents accidental changes and more. So you learn practical techniques like lock patterns, enabling content only editing, disabling specific blocks, configuring the theme.json, adjust editor settings and restrict block functionality.&#8221; So it&#8217;s Nick Diego and Jamie Marsland and they will discuss the current limitations and how you contribute to the future of WordPress to better support your clients and non-technical users.&nbsp;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> It sounds great.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>It&#8217;s a really great topic and these are so many questions that we get when we are on WordCamps or in other places on how can I make this go away? Kind of how can I&#8230;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Ah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, how can I not have them change the color of things? Or something like that. Yeah, so&#8230;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>That&#8217;s exactly the branding issue. Exactly.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Right. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> And fonts.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. It&#8217;s a big change.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Don&#8217;t change the type. I know you like those curly Q fonts, but no one can read them.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I know it&#8217;s an existential fear from designers that clients mock up the design that they spend so much time to do.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> It&#8217;s real.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It&#8217;s real. Yeah. So join Nick Diego and Jamie Marsland on October 15th, 15:00 UTC. All right. So we talked about the plugin.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">What’s Released &#8211; Gutenberg 19.4</h3>



<p>Yeah, we are now to Gutenberg 19.4. And that&#8217;s been released this week and it had 186 PRs from 54 contributors. And of those 54 contributors, six&#8230; Well, let me look at it first. Yeah, six, were new of them, so congratulations for your first contribution to Gutenberg to those new contributors.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Anne Katzeff: And again, what struck me was the amount of work that goes into it and fixing bugs, cleaning up the UI. There seems to be a lot more attention on that, which makes my heart sing.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, it&#8217;s the first Beta of 6.7 came out October 1st. And this is the first Gutenberg plugin after that that has a lot of bug fixes in there that will come into 6.7. The enhancements are locked, so those won&#8217;t get into 6.7, but all the bug fixes that or most of them will come into 6.7.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Enhancements</h3>



<p>So let&#8217;s start with the enhancements. So for end users, it&#8217;s probably easier to find the Query Loop Block. First of all, why would you know what that&#8217;s called because it sounds so technical? But it&#8217;s the posts and the post types and the blogs and all that. So all these keywords are now discoverable when you look for that. So what else is in there? Do you want to take turns on it?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Oh, I saw the File Block, allow content only editing. It&#8217;s just there&#8217;s so many little things that users come across. And if you find something that doesn&#8217;t seem right, just let the team know because they clean it up and it looks like that is one of the bugs that&#8217;s been fixed. So that was good.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. If it was in content only, you weren&#8217;t able to upload anything or do anything.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah. I mean, what? So it&#8217;s a stumbling block that&#8217;s been removed. And the other one with the navigator, they just added a new smoother transition for exiting certain scenarios. So I like that. Instead of this jarring screen change. What else did we see? We talked about the Zooming feature.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Zoom Out, yeah, we already talked about that.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. There are quite a few enhancements for that. There&#8217;s a content only Zoom Out Mode and then there&#8217;s also only Zoom Out on inserters on block selection.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> So help me understand this one, Birgit, because I think it&#8217;s meant to ensure that the default block inserters display on hover, even on Zoom Out Mode. So is that what it addressed?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. So you have that in Canvas too, that when you hover between blocks that you all of a sudden get a sibling inserter. And that&#8217;s a little bit [inaudible 00:39:27] in the Zoom Out Mode. So it only will show up, let the inserter show when you actually select a block.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Got you.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: So it&#8217;s not going to hover&#8230; When you hover over Zoom Out, it was showing every time you&#8217;re going from one place to the next, it shows you an inserter, which you probably wouldn&#8217;t need at that moment because you are just hovering.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Exactly.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So now they&#8217;re doing it when you select the block.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah. That&#8217;s fine-tuning. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: It&#8217;s definitely-</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> That was great.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So the Zoom Out, so what will come to the 6.7 is the Zoom Out Mode for patterns, but they&#8217;re also working on other things on the Zoom Out and for the Zoom Out Mode and kind of figuring out, okay, when can you do what in different scenarios?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And so it&#8217;s definitely an active development. And we&#8217;ll only have a reduced from the plugin to the 6.7. There&#8217;s only a subset of that it will come to 6.7 that they are very confident about. And the other ones, they&#8217;re still kind of trying to figure things out. Yeah. And the data forms, the Data Views. We talked about quite a lot here on the podcast and also on the Weekend Edition. With 19.4, there&#8217;s also the data forms component that&#8217;s part of the Data Views that has now combined field support. So you can have form labels and fields next to each other. So they are in columns or something like that.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Ah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So the component now offers that particular feature for developers who use that for their plugins.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay. Good. And then something about the Edit Mode, they updated the tools menu with the right and slash design order. There was a lot of attention given to that. And to be honest, I&#8217;ve never ever used that feature. It&#8217;s like I don&#8217;t really see the point of it, but&#8230; To me, it just adds to the clutter. I&#8217;m all for clearing out the clutter.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. I think it&#8217;s also there for those who are traveling the Canvas via keyboard navigation, so they can get in and out. So the problem there is that you need to navigate either to go from block to block or go into the block. And that&#8217;s where the right end design or the right end design mode kind of changes. Is it either do you edit the block or do you want to select the block kind of? So for someone who is around the Canvas with a keyboard, there&#8217;s a toggle in between. For those who actually see what they&#8217;re doing and use the mouse, it&#8217;s almost seamless. So that&#8217;s why you probably haven&#8217;t used it because you can select the block with a mouse and automatically are in the Edit Mode. But you can also scroll the Canvas and then point with a mouse to get into an Edit Mode. But when you&#8217;re around with a keyboard, you need the different modes to know if you are traveling up and down the Canvas or you&#8217;re going deeper into the block. I don&#8217;t know if I explained this.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay. So it&#8217;s like an accessibility tool?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes, absolutely.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Okay. Got you. Thank you for that explanation.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It probably also would get a little bit more prominent for the Zoom Out view because then there&#8217;s a different Edit Mode and a different Select Mode as well. So there&#8217;s similar concepts there that will come with the Zoom Out. But I&#8217;m really excited about the next one, and that is that you now have a command, palette command to add a new page within the Site Editor so you don&#8217;t have to get out and out and out, go to the pages…</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah. Thank you. Absolutely. And it&#8217;s so sensible. It&#8217;s like tackling the separation of content and design. It&#8217;s just such a sensible addition. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. And there&#8217;s a little quality of life kind of change. For the connected blocks, the color is going to be purple, but now they also have a purple backdrop color. So you can really see, okay, this is&#8230; The color, the purple was nice, but it also was very subtle. So with the background it&#8217;s a little bit more obvious, ah, for the block.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay. Yeah, because I wasn&#8217;t sure if I agreed with that enhancement. My concern was does it pass in accessibility tests?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>And I would assume it does. That gets grayed out maybe for people with color blindness or issues.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haac</em>k: Yeah, I&#8217;m not an accessibility specialist, but I am sure they have at least checked the color contrast with it if it&#8217;s a grayed out kind of backdrop there.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> So the text is purple, it&#8217;s a darker purple on a lighter purple.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And it&#8217;s a more of blurry kind of backdrop. So it&#8217;s actually an icon kind of stands out there.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So for the next one, the extensibility new feature is that the pre-save post and the save post filters that were before unstable are now stabilized. And the difference is that if they&#8217;re unstable, you never know what happens. There might be breaking changes if you use them for your plugin development. What they allow you is to add additional things to check before a post is saved. So if you don&#8217;t have an excerpt, you can, as a plugin developer, you could prevent the post to save until an excerpt is added to it or the featured image or something that&#8230; or any other kind of check that they want to do on the publishing thing. And you would use the pre-save post filter and then allow the save post filter as well if you want to save additional things with it.</p>



<p>So these features were all there before, but they had the unstable something, underscore unstable in front of it. And that means for any developer, &#8220;Okay, if I use this, I&#8217;m on my own.&#8221; There&#8217;s no documentation, there is no guarantee that it&#8217;s backwards compatible and any of that. It can change at any time. When it&#8217;s declared stable, it&#8217;s kind of the promise of backwards compatibility is kind of attached to it. So a lot of plugin developers are really happy about that, I would think.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> You&#8217;re so good at explaining things.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Oh, really?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yes. Absolutely.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Sometimes I think I&#8217;m kind of rambling a bit.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> No. Not for me. It works for me.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Thank you. The Block Hooks are now supporting asynchronous filters and actions. So if you want to go out and do something with another feature, you can use async methods for your plugin and your blocks that you add to another block. That&#8217;s the Block Hooks, right? Block Hooks are, there&#8217;s a hook where you can say after this paragraph, put a link there or put a hash there for whatever. And then now you can do it with async filters and action. So cool. It&#8217;s an enhancement for the developers that can, so they can use modern stuff like JavaScript.</p>



<p>All right. So I think we are&#8230; Are we through the post or did&#8230;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> I think the enhancements.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> We&#8217;re through enhancements?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> I think so.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Documentation</h3>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. There are two things I wanted to point out, I think from the documentation. Yeah. So speaking about Data Views, all the documentation is actually in the storybook site that&#8217;s attached to the Gutenberg repo. And they now added another page there that kind of adds a high level graphical representation of Data Views and data source attraction. Which is really helpful for those who want to use that. It&#8217;s a new API, so documentation, so it&#8217;s a little bit behind, but if you want to explore that, that&#8217;s definitely here for your perusal.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> I&#8217;m a big fan of visuals that help us understand concepts, so I like that one.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, me too. Me too. Gives you a little map of your clutter brain. I don&#8217;t want to do mine. And there is another item in the documentation section of the Changelog. They added another page for Core concepts at the interactivity API documentation about using TypeScript within the interactivity API model. So that&#8217;s definitely worth a read for those who use the interactivity API or those who want to use them and still trying to figure out the use case, which can be hard. I cannot see that, we will get there.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Code Quality</h3>



<p>Speaking of stable, the BorderBoxControl component as well as the BorderControl and the BoxControl. These three components are now also promoted to stable. So it&#8217;s safe to use in your custom blocks or if you use them in your plugin settings pages as well. So I&#8217;m glad that there&#8217;s some work there to migrate things that have been around for a while to actually say, okay, make a decision. It&#8217;s stable and we support backwards compatibility for that. It&#8217;s definitely a commitment. I don&#8217;t know, some people have commitment issues but not developers. So that&#8217;s the Changelog from Gutenberg Plugin 19.4.</p>



<p>Well, thank you so much for going through that with me. I also know just today, the Developer blog has a roundup post every month called What&#8217;s New for Developers, and it comes out today. Today&#8217;s October the 10th, and the 10th is the publishing date. And I will add that to the show notes so you can also not only look at the 19.4, but also what&#8217;s coming from Core into 16.7 and what&#8217;s just new. There&#8217;s a ton of things in there. I reviewed it this morning and I was amazed what all is in there that was in 19.3, was in 19.4 and also comes with 6.7. So it&#8217;s definitely a great place to catch up. So now end the section-</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> And I&#8217;ve been keeping an eye&#8230; I&#8217;m, sorry, Birgit.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Go ahead.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">What’s in Active Development or Discussed</h3>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: I&#8217;ve been keeping an eye on the development and design of the next default theme Twenty Twenty Five.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Okay. Yeah.&nbsp;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> And initially I thought, &#8220;Oh, I&#8217;ll contribute to this.&#8221; And I just haven&#8217;t had the time, but I&#8217;m keeping an eye on it. I&#8217;m getting really excited about new things that are coming our way when that&#8217;s all ready&#8230; Several months ago there was a call for, I think Carolina may have done this, but someone probably Carolina said, &#8220;What would you like to see in the next default theme?&#8221; And one of the things I mentioned was some more portfolio type of options for artists and designers and folks like me. And sure enough, there&#8217;s a portfolio aspect to it for photo blogs and I would think other applications. There&#8217;s a bunch of stuff happening with grids like the density of grid layouts, the Data View options, patterns. We&#8217;ve got the, like we&#8217;ve been talking about today, the Zoom Out and the drag and drop&#8230; We didn&#8217;t actually mention the drag and drop part of the Zoom out, which-</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> No, we didn&#8217;t.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> &#8230; that was one of the most exciting parts for me. So when you&#8217;re in the Zoom In, you can drag and drop from somewhere-</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>The patterns.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> From the patterns, that&#8217;s right.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> From the patterns. Yes. In this Zoom Out Mode, you can drag and drop them over.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Zoom&#8230; Oh, okay. Yeah, got switched in my head. Another feature that&#8217;s been mentioned elsewhere on the Twitterverse, for example, the uploads for HEIC images, that&#8217;s been enabled or will be enabled. And there are just so many different design tools that they&#8217;re considering, like item colors in a list item, borders for different colors for borders and paragraphs and buttons and things like that. And an integration of a Lightbox similar to the Gallery. Well, maybe I have it twisted in my head there.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> The Gallery Block will have a Lightbox aspect to it. And then again, I always want to see, and I would love to see more work in the UI design and Custom Fields area. So we haven&#8217;t really touched on that, but those are things that are of interest to me.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> So I think they’re doing a fabulous job. Coming your way.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Coming your way to the WordPress instance near you with WordPress 6.7. And I wanted to&#8230; That sounded so technical with the HEIC image. Those are images made with an iPhone and you can now upload them to your WordPress site without having to go into your computer, download them to your computer and then go and upload them again. Now you can do this from your phone. And that&#8217;s actually quite interesting. So you can use your WordPress site if you want to, like your Instagram kind of thing, but you have your own space there. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Does it convert those images to JPEG?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yes.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> It does. It compresses them.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. That&#8217;s actually the feature, because web browsers don&#8217;t support HEIC images, so you need to convert them to what browsers do and to make them there. But on upload it will do all the things, all the magic. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay.</p>



<p>Birgit Pauli-Haack: And yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> See I don&#8217;t rely on the native WordPress compression. I do that compression myself before I do an upload and I convert to JPEG, but this is all on desktop. So if you want to go directly from your phone to your site, that&#8217;s a nice feature.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, that&#8217;s what a lot of people do that want to share their photos, upload them to the blog. And then of course with the new Twenty Twenty-Five, and thank you for pointing that out, you are now getting a great designs for photo blogs and portfolio things. I really like also, the patterns that they offer for galleries, there are six or seven patterns.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: Oh, really? Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, they are in there.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>That&#8217;s great.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. And 6.7 comes with a bunch of new design tools. It&#8217;s mainly borders for everybody. Every single block.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> That could be a blog title. Borders for all.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Borders for all. Borders for us. Oh no, that was a bookstore.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Oh, right. Right, Borders Bookstore.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>So the images got their Lightbox with 6.5, I think.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>There was nothing in there for 6.6. And then now with the 6.7, the gallery, so when you add images to the gallery, there&#8217;s another feature there. There&#8217;s actually, when you upload a bunch of photos in your Canvas, in your next post, it automatically creates a gallery. So that&#8217;s also something. And then when you have an Image Block and you drag and drop another image next to it also automatically creates a Gallery Block, so you have them side by side.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Huh. Okay. So it doesn&#8217;t automatically create a column.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> No.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> A Column Block. Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah. And now when you&#8217;re in the gallery, the link feature of the image, and that&#8217;s also for the Image Block, the link feature, it kind of comes out as a drop-down, the link button and it gives you the choice. Do you want to link at it or do you want to have a Lightbox or expand on click because you can&#8217;t have both? There&#8217;s only one click and it&#8217;s either a link to someplace else or you get your Lightbox there.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: Makes sense. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> That you can set for every image in your gallery. So it&#8217;s now possible.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Right.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>And then-</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah. Wouldn&#8217;t it be curious if some of the gallery images clicked&#8230; When you clicked on them, you&#8217;d get a Lightbox for one and then a link for&#8230; What a mess. You have to choose.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. It confuses people. And then when all the pictures have the link to Lightbox, then you also get a gallery slider. Not a slider, but a previous and next for your images. So you can actually watch the gallery in expand mode throughout the images. Yeah. So it&#8217;s really-</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Will there be a navigation device? Or you just do it with your keyboard?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> There will be arrows next to each other.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Arrows. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I don&#8217;t know if there are bullets, so you know how many are in there. I don&#8217;t recall, but I need to test them.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Maybe you can style them.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. Well, yes you can-</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah. You can probably style them differently.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, you need to style them through CSS then. Yeah, you can-</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah. Below the Lightbox, the dots underneath.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah. So you kind of indicate how many of that. So yeah, glad that we talked about 6.7 a little bit. Yeah, the Query Loop definitely has some nice features in there, now it knows the template you are adding it to. And then you can actually&#8230; Ryan Welcher did great work on that to add additional settings into the sidebar for the Query Loop Blocks. So you can change the order and you could do that as well. And then you have drop-downs for categories and all that taxonomy, different kinds of taxonomies by author.&nbsp;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah, I would really want to play with that. Yeah, because what I was wondering, I think I read somewhere that you can have maybe a grid of six, let&#8217;s say, and then interrupt that pattern with maybe two, and then go back to another grid of six. So I think you can mix them in, which is very exciting.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. And so you have three Query Blocks and then each one of them can be a different category or can have a different feature set or something like that. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Yeah. That&#8217;s great. Outstanding.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, that&#8217;s what you also see on the&#8230; We talked about Twenty Twenty-Five that you have different kind of blogs. So one is a simple blog, the other one is the photo blog, and the third feature is kind of a news blog. You have multiple posts a day or something like that. You get a magazine view.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: Yeah, the categories are perfect for a newspaper or magazine type of content.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Exactly, yeah. And there is one little trick that if you get some&#8230; Because you have multiple Query Blocks, so it goes out and does the query multiple times, that might be a performance hit.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff</em>: Oh yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> But if you remove, because on that magazine look, you don&#8217;t want that pagination there on the Query Loop. You can take that out of it and then the performance is a little bit better there.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, it&#8217;s going to be really interesting. Yeah. All right.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> All right.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So we&#8217;re coming to the end of the show and if people want to get in contact with you, how would they find you?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Oh, so on Twitter, who am I on Twitter? Let me have a look at myself on Twitter. ASKDesign2 and-</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Okay. With the number 2, right?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> With the number 2. And where else? On Instagram am I the same? Probably.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>So are you on WordPress Slack?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> I am on WordPress Slack. Who am I there? Let&#8217;s see. It&#8217;s funny, you never look at yourself on these things. I am Anne Katzeff on that. Yeah. So those are the two places.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So it&#8217;s K-A-T-Z-E-F, right?</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> K-A-T-Z-E-F-F as in flower.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> All right. And your website is&#8230;</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Askdesign, A-S-KDesign.biz. So when I was first getting my website up and running, askdesign.com was already taken. That domain name was already taken by a plumber. So my brother said, &#8220;What about .biz?&#8221;</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Mm-hmm.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff: </em>So that&#8217;s what I did.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah, that&#8217;s a good domain name, yes. All right, so I will share all the links to Anne as well in the show notes. And thank you very much for taking the time and being here and going through the changeover with me.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> My pleasure.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> &#8230; sharing all your blog theme experiences here.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Thanks for the invite.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, absolutely. You might get another one in a couple of months.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Okay.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So dear listeners, always the show notes will be published on <a href="http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast">GutenbergTimes.com/podcast</a>. And this is episode 109. And if you have questions or suggestions or news you want us to include, send them to <a href="mailto:Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com">Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com</a>, that&#8217;s <a href="mailto:Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com">Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com</a>, or just ping me on Twitter or on WordPress Slack. That&#8217;s it for now, I&#8217;ll talk to you in two weeks with 19.5 and more about 6.7.</p>



<p>Thank you so much, Anne, and goodbye.</p>



<p><em>Anne Katzeff:</em> Thanks so much Birgit.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sun, 13 Oct 2024 09:33:02 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Birgit Pauli-Haack";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:11;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:27:"Matt: Everyone’s An Owner";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=127874";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:38:"https://ma.tt/2024/10/owner-mentality/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4893:"<p>Last Friday we said goodbye to 159 colleagues as part of our <a href="https://ma.tt/2024/10/alignment/">alignment offer</a>. It was a tough day, there are a lot of close relationships within Automattic, and goodbyes are always hard.</p>



<p>On Monday, I got to <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pviYWzu0dzk">be Oprah for a few minutes</a>. We had scheduled a town hall for leaders around the company to speak to everyone, and our <a href="https://woocommerce.com/">Woo</a> team had ~350 people in person at a meetup in Tulum. I had five minutes to talk, and over the weekend, I had been brainstorming with finance and HR for something nice we could do for everyone who stayed. We couldn&#8217;t give them all a six-month bonus, which would have cost ~$126M, but we did take how much we spent on severance for the 159 people, rounded up a bit, and granted everyone at Automattic 200 shares of A12 stock, so about a $12M bonus for the employees.</p>



<p>What&#8217;s A12 stock? This is probably the first time you&#8217;re hearing about it, we haven&#8217;t had a chance to talk about this publicly much before.</p>



<p>Usually, options or common stock in a private company is fairly illiquid, with rare opportunities to sell or lots of restrictions <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/technology/uber-said-to-consider-changes-to-employee-stock-compensation.html">like what Uber had</a>; it&#8217;s not an efficient or predictable market. Options are &#8220;nice&#8221; because they can defer taxes, but you still have to exercise them, and they can go underwater. Also, as a fully distributed company, we have people in 91 countries, so security and tax laws around options make them not worth it in most places outside of the US.</p>



<p>When thinking about a stock plan for Automatticians, we thought, our most sophisticated investors have nice protections like a 1x liquidation preference, what if we gave that to employees, too? So to summarize, A12 is a special class of stock available only to buy if you&#8217;re a current Automattician with these characteristics:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>There are twice-a-year windows to buy. You have to hold for 1 year, but then there are quarterly windows to sell, which is very predictable.</li>



<li>Automattic maintains the internal market, and provides a backstop so you can always sell the shares at what you paid for them or more, like a 1x liquidation preference.</li>



<li>Current employees can buy, but former employees are eligible for every selling window, there&#8217;s no politics like can happen with tender offers. It&#8217;s reliable and predictable.</li>



<li>Unlike options, A12 stock never expires. Once you own it, you own it.</li>



<li>Initially we only allowed $25k/year of A12 to be purchased, but as our business has scaled we now allow up to $1M/yr of A12 stock to be purchased. (Remember, the company has to backstop the purchase price.)</li>



<li>A12 is just economic rights, it doesn&#8217;t have any voting rights.</li>



<li>A12 stock can be transferred to a trust.</li>



<li>The price is set by an external firm, just like our 409a. Because that process discounts us so much for being private, it&#8217;s a pretty good deal compared to what investors would pay for a share.</li>



<li>We&#8217;ve mostly moved away from options, which really only work for already wealthy, sophisticated hires. We pay very generous base salary (which banks love, makes it easier to get a mortgage) and then people can make a personal decision whether the characteristics of A12 fits with their financial planning alongside index funds, stocks, and bonds.</li>
</ul>



<p>We&#8217;ve been running this program since 2016. The main downside risk for A12 holders, which isn&#8217;t that different from common stock, is that we go out of business and can&#8217;t keep our commitments. But that&#8217;s true of any stock investment, and we have a pretty solid track record.</p>



<p>We want everyone to have an owner mentality, so we&#8217;ve also now started granting 1 share of A12 stock to every new hire.</p>



<p>Our legal team has their hands full right now with the <a href="https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/05/wordpress-ceo-matt-mullenweg-goes-nuclear-on-silver-lake-wp-engine-.html">Silver Lake / WP Engine stuff</a>, but we&#8217;d like to open source our docs around this so other companies can offer the same thing easily, I&#8217;ll see if we can make time for that in the next few weeks.</p>



<p>We also announced something else cool for employees on Monday around our Grand Meetup in 2025, but to know that secret you have to <a href="https://automattic.com/work-with-us/">work with us</a>. We are one of the most open companies, but we can&#8217;t publish everything! <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/263a.png" alt="☺" class="wp-smiley" /></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 12 Oct 2024 23:06:05 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:12;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:40:"WordPress.org blog: Secure Custom Fields";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17956";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:56:"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/secure-custom-fields/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2839:"<p>On behalf of the <a href="https://wordpress.org/about/security/">WordPress security team</a>,  I am announcing that we are invoking <a href="https://github.com/wordpress/wporg-plugin-guidelines/blob/trunk/guideline-18.md">point 18 of the plugin directory guidelines</a> and are forking Advanced Custom Fields (ACF) into a new plugin, Secure Custom Fields. SCF has been updated to remove commercial upsells and fix a security problem.</p>



<p>On October 3<sup>rd</sup>, the ACF team announced ACF plugin updates will come directly from their website. Sites that followed the ACF team&#8217;s instructions on “How to update ACF” will continue to get updates directly from WP Engine. On October 1<sup>st</sup>, 2024, WP Engine also deployed its own solution for updates and installations for plugins and themes across their customers’ sites in place of <a href="https://wordpress.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">WordPress.org</a>’s update service.</p>



<p>Sites that continue to use&nbsp;<a target="_blank" href="https://wordpress.org/" rel="noreferrer noopener">WordPress.org</a>’s update service and have not chosen to switch to ACF updates from WP Engine can click to update to switch to Secure Custom Fields. Where sites have chosen to have plugin auto-updates from&nbsp;<a target="_blank" href="https://wordpress.org/" rel="noreferrer noopener">WordPress.org</a>&nbsp;enabled, this update process will auto-switch them from Advanced Custom Fields to Secure Custom Fields.</p>



<p>This update is as minimal as possible to fix the security issue. Going forward, Secure Custom Fields is now a non-commercial plugin, and if any developers want to get involved in maintaining and improving it, please get in touch.</p>



<p>Similar situations have happened before, but not at this scale. This is a rare and unusual situation brought on by WP Engine&#8217;s legal attacks, we do not anticipate this happening for other plugins.</p>



<p>WP Engine has <a href="https://www.advancedcustomfields.com/blog/installing-and-upgrading-to-the-latest-version-of-acf/">posted instructions for how to use their version of Advanced Custom Fields that uses their own update server</a>, so you have that option, though the WordPress Security Team does not recommend it until they fix the security issues. You can uninstall Advanced Custom Fields and <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/">activate Secure Custom Fields from the plugin directory</a> and be just fine.</p>



<p>There is separate, but not directly related news that <a href="https://www.wpgraphql.com/2024/10/07/wpgraphql-becomes-a-canonical-plugin-my-move-to-automattic">Jason Bahl has left WP Engine to work for Automattic and will be making WPGraphQL a canonical community plugin</a>. We expect others will follow as well.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 12 Oct 2024 18:26:55 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Matt Mullenweg";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:13;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:108:"Gutenberg Times: Testing WordPress 6.7, Gutenberg 19.4, responsive Navigation Block — Weekend Edition #307";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=30296";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:112:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/testing-wordpress-6-7-gutenberg-19-4-responsive-navigation-block-weekend-edition-307/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18111:"<p>Hi there! </p>



<p>Greetings from WordCamp Karlsruhe! A great new WordCamp in Germany, with talks in German. I am writing this from the Karlsruhe venue. The video team is busy uploading the recordings to WordPress TV and has already published the sessions almost in real time.  <a href="https://wordpress.tv/event/wordcamp-karlsruhe-2024/">When you read this, all talks will be online.</a></p>



<p>It has been a great way to get grounded after the last two weeks and talk with with long-time friends and make new ones. in the WordPress Community.  Huge Thank you to the organizers, volunteers, speakers, sponsors, and attendees for a wonderful event. </p>



<p>And now we continue with our usual programming. Enjoy the updates and have a great weekend! </p>



<p>Yours, 💕<br /><em>Birgit</em></p>



<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow">
<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>



<ol><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/weekend-edition-307/#0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/weekend-edition-307/#0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/weekend-edition-307/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor</a></li></ol>
</div></div>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>



<p>The <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/wordpress-6-7-beta-2/">WordPress 6.7 Beta 2</a> ready for testing! The final release is scheduled for November 12, 2024. The WordPress Test team has some instructions on what and how you can assist in testing the new version. <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/10/01/help-test-wordpress-6-7/">Help Test WordPress 6.7</a>. </p>



<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/10/01/help-test-wordpress-6-7/"><img width="652" height="374" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/early-6.7-highlight-grid.png?resize=652%2C374&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-30359" /></a>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> continued their series of Core Editor Improvement post with<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/10/08/core-editor-improvement-new-features-and-flows-for-font-management/"> New features and flows for Font Management</a>. They highlighted enhanced flows for typography, including better font selection, more intuitive settings, and improved accessibility features. The updates aim to streamline the user experience, making it easier for users to customize text styles and sizes. Overall, these enhancements focus on providing greater control over typography in block-based layouts, aligning with user feedback and needs.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>Gutenberg 19.4 is now live. It&#8217;s stoke full of bug fixes from the first two weeks of WordPress 6.7 beta testing. Besides those, release lead <strong>Carlos Bravo</strong> highlighted in his post <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/10/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-9-31-may-2/"><strong>What’s new in Gutenberg 19.4? (9 Oct)</strong></a></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/10/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-9-31-may-2/#new-write-design-modes">New Write / Design modes.</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/10/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-9-31-may-2/#public-block-bindings">Block Bindings Editor APIs are public</a></li>
</ul>



<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/10/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-15-9-31-may-2/"><img width="652" height="367" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/gb-19-4-write-design-2048x1152-1.png?resize=652%2C367&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-30395" /></a>



<p><strong>Anne Katzeff</strong>, theme developer from Boston, and I caught up on the Gutenberg Changelog episode 109. Besides covering the Gutenberg 19.4 changelog and other announcements, and we talked through <a href="https://www.askdesign.biz/blog/2024/01/building-my-first-wordpress-block-theme-part-1/">Katzeff&#8217;s experience on building a block theme.</a> As always, the episode will arrive at your favorite podcast app over the weekend. </p>



<img width="652" height="184" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Screenshot-2024-10-12-at-15.51.00.png?resize=652%2C184&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-30397" />



<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p>🎙️ Latest episode: <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-108-block-themes-for-agencies/">Gutenberg Changelog #108 – Gutenberg 19.3, WordPress 6.7 – Block Themes for Agencies, WordCamp Asia</a></p>



<img width="652" height="189" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Screenshot-2024-09-30-at-10.09.05.png?resize=652%2C189&ssl=1" alt="Gutenberg Changelog 108 with JC Palmes and host Birgit Pauli-Haack" class="wp-image-30347" />
</div></div>



<p><strong>Joen Asmussen</strong> listed in his <strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/10/07/design-share-65-sep-23-oct-4/">Design Share #65 (Sep 23-Oct 4)</a> </strong>the various projects the WordPress design team has been working on: </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Using Data Views to manage navigation menus</li>



<li>Exploring different treatments for the Featured image control</li>



<li>Favorites in Data views</li>



<li>Reorganizing the block transform menu</li>



<li>Contextual ordering controls in data views</li>



<li>ListboxControl component</li>



<li>Component Audit</li>
</ul>



<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/10/07/design-share-65-sep-23-oct-4/"><img width="652" height="451" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/transform.webp?resize=652%2C451&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-30400" /></a>



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<p><strong>Nick Diego</strong> published <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/10/10/whats-new-for-developers-october-2024/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><strong>What’s new for developers? (October 2024)</strong></a>. With WordPress 6.7 just around the corner, stay up-to-date on the latest developer news from the past month, including major updates to WordPress Playground.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>



<p><strong>Fränk Klein</strong> published a Case Study in <a href="https://wpdevelopment.courses/articles/my-peak-challenge-case-study/"><strong>How <em>My Peak Challenge</em> boosted conversion rates and engagement with a block-based website</strong></a> and share the approach of converting a site to a block-based theme. &#8220;When it came to WordPress, the agency relied on Elementor in the past. However, the poor performance and user experience led PerezCarreno &amp; Coindreau to rethink their approach. And give Full-Site Editing a try.&#8221; he wrote.</p>



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<p><strong>Dave Smith</strong>, core-contributor, released a stand-alone plugin, <strong><a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/getdave-responsive-navigation-block/">Responsive Navigation Block</a>.</strong> It comes with two variations of the Navigation block for desktop and mobile you can style using the styles controls. of the block editor. Via the plugin&#8217;s settings page you and update breakpoint size and unit. <em><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5kzAaEsDMg">Dave also published a video about his new plugin</a>. </em></p>



<p>On YouTube, <strong>Jamie Marsland </strong>published a little tutorial on how to use this new plugin: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lKBhwFqAds"><strong>WordPress Mobile Menus Fixed in 3 Minutes!</strong></a></p>


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<p>On <strong>October 22 at 20:00 UTC</strong>, <strong>Wes Theron</strong> invites you to join him for the online tutorial: <a href="https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303497771/?eventOrigin=group_events_list"><strong>Creating a portfolio site with a block theme and patterns</strong></a>. &#8220;This will show you how to leverage an extensive patterns library to save time and build your site from a solid foundation.&#8221;</p>



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<p>There are now<strong> <a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/tags/full-site-editing/">993 Block Themes</a></strong><a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/tags/full-site-editing/"> </a>listed in the WordPress Theme Directory. The latest additions are:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/podbase/">Podbase</a> and <a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/adonay/">Adonay</a> by <a href="https://github.com/Automattic/themes">Automattic</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/coach-mentor/">Coach Mentor</a> by <a href="https://superbthemes.com/">Superb Themes</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/creazione-fse/">Creazione FSE</a> by <a href="https://gracethemes.com/">Grace Themes</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/photolancer/">Photolancer</a> by <a href="https://cozythemes.com/">CozyThemes</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/drweb/">Drweb</a> by <a href="https://realtimethemes.com/">Real Time Themes</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/kids-learning-toys/">Kids Learning Toys</a> by <a href="https://www.ovationthemes.com/">Ovation Themes</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/alpha-brunch-cafe/">Alpha Brunch Cafe</a> by <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/abuturab/">Abu Turab</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/maxiblocks-go/">MaxiBlocks Go</a> by <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/ckp267/">Christiaan Pieterse</a></li>
</ul>



<a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/tags/full-site-editing/"><img width="652" height="434" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Screenshot-2024-10-12-at-16.12.11.png?resize=652%2C434&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-30402" /></a>



<p><strong>&nbsp;<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2024&#8221;</a>&nbsp;</strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <strong><strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/">2020</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/">2021</a></strong>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/">2022</a></strong></strong>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023">2023</a></strong></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor</h2>



<p>In  a webinar for Cloudways, I shared <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DURhjdY6R8U"><strong>How to use Create-Block scaffolding tool for creating blocks</strong></a> and demo&#8217;s the basic examples of building a copyright block. I followed the example of the Block Editor Handbook: <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/block-editor/getting-started/tutorial/">Tutorial: Build your first block</a>. The slidedeck also <a href="https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1XCgATXz0bsM5BZ9TsMHAy3uTeQxmfGBaOw3l4Ihzj14/edit#slide=id.g306224f485d_0_125">provides a ton of resources</a> on block development with articles from the WordPress Developer Blog. </p>


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<p>If you depend on <a href="https://www.wpgraphql.com/"><strong>WPGraphQL</strong></a> for your headless WordPress instance, rejoice as Jason Bahl has joined Automattic and is <a href="https://www.wpgraphql.com/2024/10/07/wpgraphql-becomes-a-canonical-plugin-my-move-to-automattic">back full-time working on it as a canonical plugin for WordPress</a>. </p>



<p><strong>Jyolsna JE</strong> at WPTavern picked up the story: <a href="https://wptavern.com/wpgraphql-to-become-a-canonical-plugin-as-its-creator-joins-automattic"><strong>WPGraphQL to Become a Canonical Plugin as its Creator Joins Automattic</strong></a></p>



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<p>The <strong>Developer Hours</strong> are now live-streaming on YouTube. On October 15, 2024, at 15:00 UTC you can discuss <a href="https://www.youtube.com/live/6lBIkf3xNDw"><strong>How to Simplify Client Editing in WordPress</strong></a> with Jamie Marsland and Nick Diego. &#8220;You’ll learn practical techniques like using locked patterns, enabling content-only editing, disabling specific blocks, configuring theme.json, adjusting Editor settings, and restricting block functionality. We’ll also discuss the current limitations and how you can contribute to the future of WordPress to better support your clients and non-technical users.&#8221; They wrote in their description. </p>


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<p>In his latest live stream, <strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> was <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIDS4PFUHBI"><strong>looking at the Block Bindings API coming in WordPress 6.7</strong></a>, exploring the now public APIs stable editor APIs. A dev note is in the works and will come out with the Fieldguide later this month. For a preview, you can consult the PR <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/65713">Block Bindings: Open the stable editor APIs&nbsp;#65713</a> for some insights, too. </p>



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<p><strong><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. </p>



<p>Now also available via <a href="https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">Email me </a>with your experience</p>



<p><img alt="GitHub all releases" src="https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge" /></p>



<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>



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<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size">For questions to be answered on the <a href="http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href="mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>



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<hr class="wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide" />";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 12 Oct 2024 09:14:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Birgit Pauli-Haack";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:14;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:81:"Gravatar: The Non-Technical Founder’s Guide to Building a Robust Social Network";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2274";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:61:"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/10/11/create-a-social-network/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:25215:"<p>We believe that the days of a few large social networks are over, and the future is many, more niche platforms.</p>



<p>Users are increasingly concerned about privacy and moderation policies on major social media apps. This shift has sparked interest in newer, more focused social networks that cater to specific interests or communities.</p>



<p>Creating a social media platform isn&#8217;t just for tech giants anymore. Whether you&#8217;re a seasoned entrepreneur or a visionary with a unique idea, there are various approaches to bringing your social network to life. This guide explores different methods and provides a checklist of essential elements for launching your app.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Laying the Groundwork for Your Social Network</strong></h2>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Defining Your Vision and Unique Selling Proposition (USP)</strong></h3>



<p>Your vision sets the foundation for your social network. It should address a specific need or gap in the market while aligning with your personal or company values. Here are some examples:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Long-term goal:</strong> &#8220;Create a platform that connects pet owners for playdates and advice sharing.&#8221;</li>



<li><strong>Potential pivot:</strong> &#8220;Expand from pet owners to include pet service providers like vets and groomers.&#8221;</li>



<li><strong>Value alignment:</strong> &#8220;Promote responsible pet ownership and animal welfare.&#8221;</li>
</ul>



<p>Your USP is what sets your platform apart. It could be a unique feature, target audience, or approach to content. Examples include:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Unique feature:</strong> &#8220;AI-powered pet breed identification from photos.&#8221;</li>



<li><strong>Target audience:</strong> &#8220;Focus on exotic pet owners, an underserved niche.&#8221;</li>



<li><strong>Content approach:</strong> &#8220;User-generated care guides verified by veterinarians.&#8221;</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Market Research and Competitor Analysis</strong></h3>



<p>Thorough market research involves both quantitative and qualitative methods:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Quantitative: </strong>Online surveys about pet ownership habits and social media usage.</li>



<li><strong>Qualitative: </strong>Focus groups with pet owners to understand their needs and frustrations.</li>



<li><strong>Cultural considerations:</strong> Pet ownership norms in different countries or regions.</li>
</ul>



<p>Identify market gaps by exploring current trends. For example, you might find that while there are many general pet forums, there&#8217;s no dedicated platform for aquarium enthusiasts.</p>



<p>For competitor analysis, examine existing pet-related social networks:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Strengths: </strong>Large user base, extensive pet care articles.</li>



<li><strong>Weaknesses: </strong>Limited features for local connections and generic content.</li>



<li><strong>Business model:</strong> Advertising revenue, premium memberships.</li>
</ul>



<p>Use a SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats) analysis to compare your idea against competitors:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Strengths: </strong>Niche focus, unique features.</li>



<li><strong>Weaknesses: </strong>Smaller initial user base, limited resources.</li>



<li><strong>Opportunities: </strong>Growing pet ownership trends and increasing demand for specialized information.</li>



<li><strong>Threats: </strong>Potential for larger networks to add similar features.</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Creating User Personas</strong></h3>



<p>Develop multiple personas representing different user segments. For example:</p>



<table class="has-fixed-layout"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2"><strong>Sarah, 28, first-time dog owner</strong></td></tr><tr><td><strong>Demographics</strong></td><td>Young professional, urban dweller.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Psychographics</strong></td><td>Seeks advice, values convenience.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Goals</strong></td><td>Find local dog parks, connect with experienced owners.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Frustrations</strong></td><td>Overwhelmed by conflicting online advice.</td></tr></tbody></table>



<p><br />Consider creating an anti-persona to understand who you&#8217;re not targeting and focus your features and marketing efforts on actual pet owners.<br /></p>



<table class="has-fixed-layout"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2"><strong>Emma, 60, non-pet owner</strong></td></tr><tr><td><strong>Demographics</strong></td><td>60, retired, small-town resident.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Psychographics</strong></td><td>Values a low-maintenance, pet-free lifestyle.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Goals</strong></td><td>Enjoys travel and hobbies, avoids pet responsibilities.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Frustrations</strong></td><td>Finds pet care burdensome, dislikes animals in public spaces</td></tr></tbody></table>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Outlining Core Features and Functionality</strong></h3>



<p>Start with must-have features for your Minimum Viable Product (MVP). Use the MoSCoW method to prioritize:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Must have:</strong> User profiles, pet profiles, and friend connections.</li>



<li><strong>Should have:</strong> Photo sharing, direct messaging.</li>



<li><strong>Could have: </strong>Event planning for pet meetups.</li>



<li><strong>Won&#8217;t have (for MVP):</strong> Marketplace for pet products.</li>
</ul>



<p>Technical complexity and resource requirements will inevitably have an impact on the features you get started with. For instance, implementing a real-time chat feature might require more resources than a basic messaging system. The good news is that as long as you priortize UX at every stage of your network, it’s fine to roll out more advanced features later!&nbsp;</p>



<p>Finally, <strong>plan for scalability from the start.</strong> Design your database structure to accommodate future growth, such as adding new pet types or expanding to international markets. Letting your users know what’s coming through a roadmap is a great way to keep them engaged or interested even though your network might be at early stages.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Essential Elements of a Social Media Platform</strong></h2>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>User Authentication and Security</strong></h3>



<p>You need <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/26/user-authentication-methods/">reliable authentication and security measures</a> to protect user data and build trust. Consider implementing:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Multiple authentication methods:</strong>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Email and password.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="2289" height="1145" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/pap_graphic.png" alt="Password Authentication Protocol example" class="wp-image-2277" />



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Phone number verification.</li>



<li><a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/09/single-sign-on-solutions/">Single sign-on</a> (e.g., Sign in with <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/">Google</a>, <a href="https://www.facebook.com/">Facebook</a>, or <a href="https://www.apple.com/">Apple</a>).</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="1500" height="1500" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/signin_iag.png" alt="Single Sign On example" class="wp-image-2279" />



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Two-Factor Authentication (2FA):</strong>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>SMS codes.</li>



<li>Authenticator apps (like <a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.authenticator2&hl=en">Google Authenticator</a> or <a href="https://authy.com/">Authy</a>).</li>



<li><a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/04/authentication-protocols/">Biometric verification</a> (fingerprint or face recognition).</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="371" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/biometric-verification.png?w=660" alt="Biometric verification" class="wp-image-2280" />



<p>Ensure compliance with data protection regulations like <a href="https://gdpr-info.eu/">GDPR</a> and <a href="https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa">CCPA</a>. This includes:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Clear privacy policies.</li>



<li>User consent for data collection.</li>



<li>Options for users to download or delete their data.</li>
</ul>



<p>Regularly conduct security audits and penetration testing to identify and address vulnerabilities.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>User Profiles and Account Management</strong></h3>



<p>Create comprehensive yet <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/05/user-profile-page-examples/">flexible user profiles</a>:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Basic information:</strong> Name, username, profile picture.</li>



<li><strong>Optional fields:</strong> Bio, location, interests.</li>



<li><strong>Pet-specific info (for a pet-focused network): </strong>Pet types, breeds, ages.</li>
</ul>



<p>Offer granular privacy settings:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Control who can see profile information.</li>



<li>Options to make certain posts public or private.</li>
</ul>



<p>Consider implementing verification systems for specific user types, such as certified pet trainers or veterinarians.</p>



<p><img src="https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f4a1.png" alt="💡" class="wp-smiley" /> If you’re looking for an excellent profile management tool to integrate into your social networking platform, <a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a> allows users to create and manage their online identities across multiple platforms, saving development time and ensuring profile consistency.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Content Creation and Sharing</strong></h3>



<p>Support various content types to keep your platform engaging:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Text posts (with character limits appropriate for your audience).</li>



<li>Images and photo albums.</li>



<li>Videos (consider length limits based on your server capacity).</li>



<li>Links (with preview capabilities).</li>



<li>Polls or quizzes.</li>
</ul>



<p>Implement content moderation tools:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Automated filters for inappropriate content.</li>



<li>User reporting systems.</li>



<li>Human moderation for complex cases.</li>
</ul>



<p>Address copyright issues by implementing <a href="https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explained/the-digital-millennium-copyright-act-dmca/dmca-notice-takedown-process/">DMCA takedown procedures</a> and educating users about copyright laws.</p>



<p>Optimize for mobile:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Easy photo/video uploads from mobile devices.</li>



<li>Mobile-friendly content creation interfaces.</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Social Interactions</strong></h3>



<p>Design intuitive features for connecting and interacting:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Friend/follow actions:
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><em>Add Friend</em> or <em>Follow</em> buttons on profiles.</li>



<li>Suggestions for new connections based on mutual friends or interests.</li>
</ul>
</li>



<li>Privacy controls:
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Blocking and muting options.</li>



<li>Control over who can send messages or comment on posts.</li>
</ul>
</li>



<li>Engagement features:
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Likes, reactions (e.g., love, laugh, support).</li>



<li><a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/11/enable-comments-in-wordpress/">Comments with threading for conversations</a>.</li>



<li>Sharing options (within the platform and to external sites).</li>
</ul>
</li>



<li>Groups and communities:
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Public and private group options.</li>



<li>Group roles (admin, moderator, member).</li>



<li>Group-specific content feeds.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>News Feeds and Content Discovery</strong></h3>



<p>Create an engaging and personalized content experience:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Algorithmic feed:</strong>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Balance between chronological order and relevance.</li>



<li>Machine learning for personalized recommendations.</li>
</ul>
</li>



<li><strong>Discovery features:</strong>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>&#8220;Explore&#8221; or &#8220;Trending&#8221; sections.</li>



<li>Hashtag systems for content categorization.</li>
</ul>
</li>



<li><strong>Ethical considerations:</strong>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Transparency about how content is ranked.</li>



<li>Options to see a chronological feed to avoid filter bubbles.</li>
</ul>
</li>



<li><strong>User control:</strong>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Ability to mute certain topics or users.</li>



<li>&#8220;See less like this&#8221; options for fine-tuning preferences.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Notifications and Alerts</strong></h3>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Types of notifications:</strong>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>New friend requests or followers.</li>



<li>Likes, comments, and mentions.</li>



<li>Direct messages.</li>



<li>Group activity updates.</li>
</ul>
</li>



<li><strong>Delivery methods:</strong>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>In-app notifications.</li>



<li>Push notifications for mobile devices.</li>



<li>Email digests (daily or weekly summaries).</li>
</ul>
</li>



<li><strong>User control:</strong>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Granular settings for each notification type.</li>



<li><em>Do Not Disturb</em> modes or scheduled quiet times.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Development Approaches: Choosing the Right Path</strong></h2>



<table class="has-fixed-layout"><tbody><tr><td><strong>Approach</strong></td><td><strong>Pros</strong></td><td><strong>Cons</strong></td><td><strong>Best For</strong></td><td><strong>Examples</strong></td></tr><tr><td><strong>No-code Solutions</strong></td><td>Rapid prototyping and iteration. Lower initial development costs. Accessible to non-technical founders.</td><td>Limited customization options. Potential performance issues at scale. Dependency on the no-code platform&#8217;s future.</td><td>MVPs, small-scale projects, validation of concepts.</td><td><a href="https://wordpress.com/">WordPress</a> + <a href="https://buddypress.org/">BuddyPress</a><a href="https://bubble.io/">Bubble</a><a href="https://www.adalo.com/">Adalo</a>&nbsp;<a href="https://draftbit.com/">Draftbit</a></td></tr><tr><td><strong>App Templates and White-Label Solutions</strong></td><td>Faster time-to-market with pre-built features. Essential social network functionality included. More cost-effective than full custom development.</td><td>Less unique in terms of features and design. May include unnecessary features. Potential licensing costs and restrictions.</td><td>Entrepreneurs seeking a balance between customization and speed. Niche social networks with standard features.</td><td><a href="https://socialengine.com/">SocialEngine</a><a href="https://www.ning.com/">Ning</a><a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/peepso-core/">PeepSo</a> (WordPress plugin)</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Custom Development</strong></td><td>Full control over features, design, and UX. Better performance and scalability potential. Ownership of all code and IP.</td><td>Higher initial costs. Longer development time. Requires ongoing maintenance and updates.</td><td>Unique social network concepts. Platforms expecting high growth. Projects with specific technical requirements.</td><td>Facebook (initial version)<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/">LinkedIn</a><a href="https://www.tiktok.com/">TikTok</a></td></tr><tr><td><strong>Hybrid Approaches</strong></td><td>Combines benefits of multiple methods. Allows for gradual scaling and customization. Flexibility in development.</td><td>Can be complex to manage. Requires clear planning and architecture. May lead to technical debt if not managed properly.</td><td>Startups with some technical expertise. Projects with evolving requirements. Platforms needing quick launch with future customization.</td><td>Starting with WordPress + BuddyPress, then adding custom featuresUsing a white-label solution with custom front-end</td></tr></tbody></table>



<p><br />When choosing your approach, consider your technical expertise, budget, timeline, and long-term goals. For example, if you&#8217;re validating a concept, a no-code solution like Bubble might be ideal. For a unique, scalable platform, custom development could be the best choice.</p>



<p>Hybrid approaches offer flexibility. You might start with a template and gradually replace components with custom code as you grow. Or use microservices architecture to combine off-the-shelf solutions with custom-built features.</p>



<p>Remember to leverage APIs and third-party services for non-core functionality. For instance, <a href="https://akismet.com/">Akismet</a> for spam protection or <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/03/profiles-as-a-service/">Gravatar’s REST API</a> for user avatars can save development time and improve your platform&#8217;s features.</p>



<p>Whichever path you choose, focus on creating value for your users and be prepared to adapt your approach as your social network evolves.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Leveraging Gravatar for User Profile Management</strong></h2>



<img tabindex="0" width="1473" height="918" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/gravatar-profiles-as-a-service-1.png" alt="Gravatar – Profile as a Service homepage" class="wp-image-2282" />



<p><a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a> (Globally Recognized Avatar) is a powerful tool for simplifying user profile management in your social network. This service allows users to create and maintain a single online identity across multiple platforms.</p>



<p>Key benefits of integrating Gravatar:</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/09/06/onboarding-user-experience/"><strong>Simplified user onboarding</strong></a><strong>:</strong> Users can instantly import their existing profiles, reducing registration friction.</li>



<li><strong>Consistent user representation:</strong> Avatars and profile information remain uniform across various platforms.</li>



<li><strong>Automatic updates: </strong>When users modify their Gravatar profile, changes reflect across all connected platforms.</li>



<li><strong>Reduced development time:</strong> Eliminates the need to build a complex profile management system from scratch.</li>
</ol>



<p>Gravatar&#8217;s universal API integrates easily with various platforms, from <a href="https://wordpress.org/">WordPress</a> sites to custom-coded applications. Popular platforms like <a href="https://github.com/">GitHub</a>, <a href="https://slack.com/">Slack</a>, and <a href="https://openai.com/">OpenAI</a> already use Gravatar, providing a familiar experience for many users.</p>



<p>Implementation is straightforward:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Sign up for a Gravatar developer account.</li>



<li>Use the Gravatar API to fetch user profiles based on email addresses.</li>



<li>Display Gravatar images using a simple URL structure.</li>
</ul>



<p>For more details on how to implement Gravatar in your social network, check out the<a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/api/profiles/tutorial-user-profile/"> Gravatar API Documentation</a>.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Ensuring Security and Data Protection</strong></h2>



<p>Security and data protection are paramount for any social network, so make sure to implement these best practices to safeguard your platform:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Use secure authentication methods, including multi-factor authentication.</li>



<li>Encrypt all data, both in transit and at rest.</li>



<li>Regularly update and patch your systems to address vulnerabilities.</li>



<li>Conduct frequent security audits and penetration testing.</li>
</ul>



<p>Gravatar is a privacy-forward platform that stores user data securely and allows users to control information sharing, simplifying compliance with global data protection laws with legislation such as the GDPR and CCPA.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Other compliance measures you should consider are:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Implement clear, accessible privacy policies.</li>



<li>Obtain explicit user consent for data collection and usage.</li>



<li>Provide options for users to access, download, and delete their data.</li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Launching and Growing Your Social Network</strong></h2>



<p>A successful launch involves several important steps:</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Beta testing: </strong>Get a small group of users to test your platform before the official launch. Their feedback will be invaluable for making improvements.</li>



<li><strong>Gather user feedback:</strong> Create channels for users to easily provide feedback. This could be through in-app forms, email surveys, or user interviews.</li>



<li><strong>Make iterative improvements:</strong> Use the feedback to continuously improve your platform. Be prepared to pivot if necessary.</li>
</ol>



<p>For marketing and user acquisition:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Leverage existing social media platforms to create buzz about your new network.</li>



<li>Use content marketing to showcase the unique features of your platform.</li>



<li>Form partnerships with influencers or brands that align with your target audience.</li>
</ul>



<p>Community management is the best strategy for retaining users and fostering a positive environment. Engage with your users regularly, moderate content effectively, and create opportunities for people to connect with each other.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Measuring Success and Iterating for Improvement</strong></h2>



<p>Tracking Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) is crucial for measuring your social network&#8217;s success and guiding improvements. Focus on these essential metrics:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>User growth rate: </strong>Track new sign-ups over time.</li>



<li><strong>Daily and monthly active users (DAU/MAU):</strong> Measure platform engagement.</li>



<li><strong>Retention rate: </strong>Monitor how many users return regularly.</li>



<li><strong>Engagement metrics: </strong>Track likes, comments, shares, and time spent on the platform.</li>



<li><strong>Churn rate:</strong> Measure the percentage of users who stop using your platform.</li>
</ul>



<p>Utilize analytics tools like <a href="https://marketingplatform.google.com/about/analytics/">Google Analytics</a>, <a href="https://jetpack.com/">JetPack</a> (for WordPress), <a href="https://mixpanel.com/">Mixpanel</a>, or custom solutions to gather and analyze this data.</p>



<p>Then, make sure you implement a continuous improvement cycle:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Collect data: </strong>Regularly gather metrics and user feedback.</li>



<li><strong>Analyze:</strong> Identify trends, issues, and opportunities in the data.</li>



<li><strong>Hypothesize: </strong>Develop theories about how to improve based on your analysis.</li>



<li><strong>Test: </strong>Implement changes on a small scale or with A/B testing.</li>



<li><strong>Evaluate: </strong>Measure the impact of your changes.</li>



<li><strong>Iterate: </strong>Refine successful changes and roll them out platform-wide.</li>
</ul>



<p>Stay updated on industry trends and competitor offerings to inform your improvement efforts. Remember, successful social networks continuously evolve based on user needs and behaviors.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Next Steps: Turn Your Vision into Reality</strong></h2>



<p>Creating a new social media platform that offers value to users is entirely possible, with various avenues to get it done. The technical hurdles vary depending on your chosen method, but with the right approach, everything can be accomplished.</p>



<p>Remember, building a social network is a journey of continuous learning and adaptation. Stay curious, be open to feedback, and don&#8217;t be afraid to iterate on your ideas. Your unique perspective as a non-technical founder can be a valuable asset in creating a platform that truly resonates with users.</p>



<p>Take advantage of tools like the Gravatar API and all the benefits it brings. Explore the <a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/">Gravatar Profile-as-a-Service documentation</a> to see how easy and convenient everything can be!</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 11 Oct 2024 14:54:25 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Ronnie Burt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:15;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:84:"Do The Woo Community: Do the Woo Joins WooSesh as a Featured Community Partner Again";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:43:"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=86039";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:88:"https://dothewoo.io/blog/do-the-woo-joins-woosesh-as-a-featured-community-partner-again/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:933:"<p><a href="https://woosesh.com/">Well, get ready, <strong>WooSesh</strong> is coming October 29th and 30th. </a></p>



<p>An event we all look forward to every year. And we will once again be their <em>Featured Community Partner</em>.</p>



<p>For those of you that don&#8217;t know about WooSesh, it&#8217;s <em>the</em> virtual conference for WooCommerce store builders designed to help grow your&nbsp;business. In other words, you, are readers and listeners.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s free to register and the schedule is amazing. Also, don&#8217;t miss the Do the Woo Recaps both days with our hosts Courtney Robertson, Jonathan Wold, Robbie Adair and Marcus Burnette.</p>



<p>And make sure you watch for an episode of WordPress Event talk coming next week with founder Brian Richards and BobWP.</p>



<p>But again, it&#8217;s free. <strong><a href="https://woosesh.com/">So make sure you get your ticket today</a></strong>!</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 11 Oct 2024 14:42:08 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:16;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:40:"WordPress.org blog: Forking is Beautiful";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17953";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:41:"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/spoon/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1776:"<p>The right to fork the software is at the heart of open source. WordPress itself started as a fork of the <a href="https://cafelog.com/">b2/cafelog project</a>. WordPress was one of several forks from b2, which included b2++ (which eventually became WordPress Multisite) and some like <a href="https://b2evolution.net/">b2evolution which still continue today</a>.</p>



<p>The last decent fork attempt for WordPress was <a href="https://www.classicpress.net/">ClassicPress</a> in 2018, over disagreements about <a href="https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/">Gutenberg</a> being integrated into core.</p>



<p>We&#8217;re very proud to announce that <a href="https://x.com/vinnysgreen">Vinny Green</a>, a former WordPress community member, has started his fork, <a href="https://freewp.com/the-wait-is-over-freewp-is-here-to-shake-up-the-wordpress-ecosystem/">FreeWP</a>. We strongly encourage anyone who disagrees with the direction WordPress is headed in to join up with Vinny and create an amazing fork of WordPress. Viva FreeWP!</p>



<p>If there are other forks of WordPress we should highlight, let us know.</p>



<p>Updates with other fork efforts:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://aspirepress.org/about-us/">AspirePress</a> &#8220;AspirePress exits [sic] to be a community of individuals focused on helping WordPress become the platform we all aspire for it to be.&#8221;</li>



<li><a href="https://openpress.ai/">OpenPress</a> is not a fork, but their name implies they want people to consider it as an alternative to WordPress. They are building on Laravel, using the CC-0 license, and claim to be optimized for AI. <a href="https://github.com/OpenPress-ai/wp-openpress-exporter">Their plugin to export from WordPress is here</a>.</li>
</ul>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 10 Oct 2024 21:00:01 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Matt Mullenweg";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:17;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:93:"WPTavern: WordPress.org Login Gets Mandatory Affiliation Checkbox Following WP Engine Dispute";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=174814";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:104:"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-org-login-gets-mandatory-affiliation-checkbox-following-wp-engine-dispute";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:9191:"<p>The ongoing WP Engine-Automattic issue shows no signs of being resolved and has, in fact, increased in intensity. The conflict started last month with Matt Mullenweg’s <a href="https://wptavern.com/highlights-from-matt-mullenwegs-spiciest-word-camp-presentation-at-wordcamp-us-2024">spiciest Word Camp presentation</a> at WordCamp US 2024 where he accused WP Engine of being a “cancer to WordPress”.</p>



<p>Yesterday, users who logged onto the WordPress.org home page were surprised to see two new additions. First, there was a new “<a href="https://x.com/wpengine/status/1841633469685723292">WP Engine has filed a massive lawsuit</a>” session under the password field linking to WP Engine’s X post.</p>



<a href="https://twitter.com/wpengine/status/1841633469685723292"><img src="https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXfbe72RsbBR6GxSxt6OW0R_0VZ8deFzTzjOuu3D2iZzC3SZgGJW18jtaNPeEtjgAeYplIJSlt2yuMqvojIleLWo6J7Sh2PiGFAsQRKKGcZAf-Ia9Px6tcazAbrWO1bCJe0sq3LSvsbFzDVK-gC1OK_up9lp?key=g1WBxcIO135GVx_YbxJdhw" alt="" /></a>



<p>Second, a new mandatory check box. You could access the account only if you confirmed “I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way, financially or otherwise.” </p>



<img src="https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXdgKsQJWVfjcx3Eh3gQIa0nQxc_8_LpDXqEjMO8y_OKSlZnIOyh4GcZoCoM4rgLibiqC2Au_ClMzVfxhlOnEsL61MThuD3h7koKnfmTfpq38bGy4qW-IWdtO4ZNW_RDJcI-rQqL656mX8_2pvrvu6XP-rd9?key=g1WBxcIO135GVx_YbxJdhw" alt="" />



<p>While the lawsuit mention was soon removed from the homepage, the checkbox remains.</p>



<img src="https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXfBqNeDr5XeF4yzp_vHJbemfoqYMN4SoSdOtFd3yLlm-vF3k1ohDgVCLciEbnRez8iJlW4332mG9eR_W2rGJ79wjkwXWP-miTHvCAkm3ZbcefXXPPuqlg4HFfGZmKO2HSLvJJ_bXiPXIJFebYEbDehW-wHb?key=g1WBxcIO135GVx_YbxJdhw" alt="" />



<p>WordPress.org later <a href="https://x.com/WordPress/status/1843957482231849174">tweeted</a>: “If you have questions on whether you are affiliated with @wpengine or not, please get in touch with them.”</p>



<p>Matt shared in Slack that “There have been a ton of sign-ins since the checkbox went live” He also posted this question in <a href="https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02QB8GMM/p1728463022015469">Slack</a>: “What actions should WP Engine do for WordPress.org to remove the new login checkbox.”</p>



<p>Core-committer <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/costdev/">Colin Stewart</a> asked Matt for <a href="https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02QB8GMM/p1728463928352389">more clarification</a> regarding the new checkbox. Matt shared that the checkbox is part of WP Engine’s ban, and the values from it are not stored. Also, WP Engine&#8217;s lawsuit has put everyone who participates in .org in the position of possibly needing legal representation.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Several community members have reported being blocked from WordPress Slack including <a href="https://x.com/JavierCasares/status/1843963052183433331">Javier Casares</a> (Hosting Team Rep and also Lead for the WordPress Advanced Administration Handbook), <a href="https://x.com/rmccue/status/1843967630585311595">Ryan McCue</a> (WordPress committer, and co-lead on the WordPress REST API), <a href="https://x.com/jonoalderson/status/1843985559745921046">Jono Alderson</a> (technical SEO consultant), <a href="https://x.com/alexsirota/status/1843970587107991872">Alex Sirota</a> (founder of NewPath Consulting) and <a href="https://x.com/LinuxJedi/status/1843966957495939093">Andrew Hutchings</a> (Chief Contributions Officer at MariaDB Foundation).</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Community Response</h3>



<p>Many are just eager for the escalating drama to end. Community members also took to X to share their opinions.</p>



<p><strong>Rajendra Zore</strong>, CMO of RunCloud <a href="https://x.com/rajendrazore/status/1843897786632212909">summed it up</a> best: “Every day, I hope today will be the day this WP vs WPE drama ends. The Community—who built this OSS and has been completely ignored—finally deserves the attention it’s been missing. The most dysfunctional leadership I’ve ever seen is shamelessly on display, leaving the community feeling like a child caught between fighting parents. So toxic! <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f623.png" alt="😣" class="wp-smiley" />” </p>



<p><strong>Bozz Media</strong> <a href="https://x.com/bozzmedia/status/1843869886403256330">asked</a>: “Financially, or otherwise&#8221; what does this even mean? Is this meant to cover customers of WPE? Either way;  Yikes… Beyond the check mark how is an unrelated “news” link about WPE part of the login form in any way a rational or acceptable UI update to .org ??” </p>



<p>Plugin developer <strong>Daan van den Bergh</strong> <a href="https://x.com/Dan0sz/status/1843891750596948394">tweeted</a>: “I&#8217;m starting to dislike WordPress because of this. I don&#8217;t care about WP Engine: I don&#8217;t use their services/plugins, yet I get slapped in the face with this drama every day. Now a F-in login page? WTF!” </p>



<p><strong>James Giroux</strong> (Technical Account Manager at WordPress VIP) published <a href="https://jamesgiroux.ca/why-is-matt-turning-up-the-volume/">Why Is Matt Turning Up The Volume?</a> He notes “This conflict reveals the true cost of maintaining WordPress infrastructure, and it’s a fight for the survival of WordPress’s values and community integrity.” He continued “Matt is well within his rights as the principal financier of the infrastructure around WordPress to decide who can and cannot access it. He’s usually quite permissive of many things and extends a lot of grace. In this fight for the heart and soul of WordPress, though, he is not holding his punches.”</p>



<p><strong>David Heinemeier Hansson</strong>, the creator of Ruby on Rails shared <a href="https://world.hey.com/dhh/automattic-is-doing-open-source-dirty-b95cf128">Automattic is doing open source dirty</a>. He says “Between creating one of the most widely used open-source programs and powering half the internet, there&#8217;s every tribal reason to side with Automattic over WP Engine&#8217;s private-equity owners at Silver Lake….But I suspect Automattic wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want to retain WordPress&#8217; shine of open source, but also be able to extract their pound of flesh from any competitor that might appear, whenever they see fit. Screw that.” </p>



<p>He also had this to say: “That&#8217;s the deal. That&#8217;s open source. I give you a gift of code, you accept the terms of the license. There cannot be a second set of shadow obligations that might suddenly apply, if you strike it rich using the software. Then the license is meaningless, the clarity all muddled, and certainty lost.” </p>



<a href="https://twitter.com/photomatt/status/1843803465719620012" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><img src="https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXf4uq8SvgT5t4q8yIKUoisr_bmXnlwX9ggl5MW1A_FwjFcCJfXgL-jkuWECh62-_falB7uVXAF4bie6fWXU4dMLq_BY2keajzdSvyurN7HPk_R03BL9dqjoYaPmrgR3seFiLtlPUqVXeVJ5c965EiBDWRE?key=g1WBxcIO135GVx_YbxJdhw" alt="" /></a>



<p><strong>Guillermo Rauch</strong>, CEO of Vercel, has <a href="https://x.com/rauchg/status/1844167329913110667">shared</a> a Twitter thread analysing the WP login checkbox. </p>



<p><a href="https://x.com/photomatt/status/1843803465719620012"></a>Some took it as a chance to let their imagination run wild. </p>



<a href="https://x.com/xaver_/status/1843926554042306951"><img width="976" height="1682" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-12.png" alt="" class="wp-image-174818" /></a>



<a href="https://x.com/MetaPrinxss/status/1843919050478621156"><img width="500" height="425" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-14-500x425.png" alt="" class="wp-image-174821" /></a>



<p>TheWPGirls have a new song <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duz9crandDE">WP Engine Affiliate Blues (Can&#8217;t Prove I&#8217;m Innocent)</a>. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">WP Engine Responds</h3>



<p>WP Engine has responded in a tweet: “Like the rest of the community, we have seen a new checkbox for logins at WordPress.org that has created confusion amongst the community as to whether or how they are obliged to answer the question posed next to the checkbox. We value our customers, agencies, users and the community as a whole, none of whom are affiliates of WP Engine.”</p>



<a href="https://x.com/wpengine/status/1844078545603092691"><img src="https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXc_7InS3cMSyWqsPT23hxh7XC7ow8IPWdyInox0rUVK82yXldSb7E_pOvcnW0_WG-LYbwMBOxe_d2bMWeh6JgjExlM_MVXXquSrKQui0GRYQyd6H1-WLhJmHqeTwqffvJBbxE4xd-SIws6bund4x_A_yHsF?key=g1WBxcIO135GVx_YbxJdhw" alt="" /></a>



<p>This is affecting the morale of the thousands of people who voluntarily contribute to their beloved CMS. But then you know what happens when elephants fight.&nbsp;</p>



<p>(For those who might have missed parts of the dispute, I’ll share a quick summary soon.)</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 10 Oct 2024 04:26:02 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:18;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:11:"
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:1:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:33:"HeroPress: Ten Years Of HeroPress";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:29:"https://heropress.com/?p=7473";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:111:"https://heropress.com/ten-years-of-heropress/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ten-years-of-heropress";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:81164:"<img width="1024" height="235" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/heropress_everyone-1024x235.webp" class="attachment-large size-large wp-post-image" alt="" /><p><a href="https://heropress.com/feed/#future">Be sure to read the announcement at the bottom!</a></p>



<p>In late November of 2014 I woke to an email that would change my life.  It said</p>



<blockquote><p>I want you do do something great for WordPress.</p></blockquote>



<p>I wrote back and asked &#8220;What is it?&#8221; and he wrote back</p>



<blockquote><p>That&#8217;s your journey to discover.</p></blockquote>



<p>What a thing! I won&#8217;t tell the whole story here, I&#8217;ve told it many times, but this was the spark that started HeroPress.</p>



<p>For those that don&#8217;t remember, <a href="https://wptavern.com/heropress-fails-to-attract-backers-cancels-kickstarter-campaign-ahead-of-deadline">HeroPress Version 1 ended in failure</a>. Everyone walked away and it was done. But people kept emailing me and telling me not to let it go.  So we pivoted from a video format to text, and away we went.</p>



<p>In the years that followed we&#8217;ve published <strong>278 essays</strong> in <strong>29 languages</strong> from <strong>66 countries</strong>. There were 136 women, 134 men, and 3 non-binary folk. The longest anyone ever took to get me an essay was 9 years.  The shortest was 2 hours.</p>


<div class="wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block">
<p>Here we all are:</p>


<ul id="contrib-grid"><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/lana-miro/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Lana_Kravchenko-1-150x150.webp" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Lana Miro" title="Lana Miro" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/mumtahina-faguni/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/mumta-150x150.webp" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Mumtahina Faguni" title="Mumtahina Faguni" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/rae-morey/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/rae-morey-150x150.webp" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Rae Morey" title="Rae Morey" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/ben-evans/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/ben-2023-square-extra-small-1-scaled-1.avif" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Ben Evans" title="Ben Evans" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/elena-brescacin/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/foto-Elena-Brescacin-ottobre-2023-scaled_600.avif" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Elena Brescacin" title="Elena Brescacin" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/tor-bjorn-fjellner/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/tobi-selfie20210519-sq-600-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Tor-Björn Fjellner" title="Tor-Björn Fjellner" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/nada-elsharkawy/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Nada_ElSharkawy2.avif" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Nada Elsharkawy" title="Nada Elsharkawy" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/dr-rhiannon-little-surowski/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/rhiannon-little-surowski-150x150.webp" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Dr. Rhiannon Little-Surowski" title="Dr. Rhiannon Little-Surowski" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/matteo-enna/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/matteo-min-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Matteo Enna" title="Matteo Enna" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/syed-laden/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/1052441B-31C7-4153-94F9-227FF564B1E1-Photoroom.png-Photoroom-150x150.webp" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Syed Laden" title="Syed Laden" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/juan-chen/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Juan-Chen-150x150.webp" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Juan Chen" title="Juan Chen" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/adrita-chakraborty/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Adrita-WordCamp-150x150.webp" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Adrita Chakraborty" title="Adrita Chakraborty" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/aki-hamano/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/aki_hamano-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Aki Hamano" title="Aki Hamano" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/nahuai-badiola/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Nahuai-Badiola-cuad-150x150.webp" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Nahuai Badiola" title="Nahuai Badiola" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/quentin-le-duff/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/quentin-leduff-min-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Quentin Le Duff" title="Quentin Le Duff" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/ganga-kafle/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/ganga_kafle-min-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Ganga Kafle" title="Ganga Kafle" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/tremi-dkhar/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/JN_09968-150x150.webp" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Tremi Dkhar" title="Tremi Dkhar" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/adelina-tuca/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/adelina-heropress-photo-150x150.webp" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Adelina Tuca" title="Adelina Tuca" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/krupa-nanda/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/krupa_nanda-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Krupa Nanda" title="Krupa Nanda" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/sadie-michaela-harris/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Sadie-profile-min-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Sadie-Michaela Harris" title="Sadie-Michaela Harris" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/justin-kopepasah/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/suit-up-with-lincoln-600-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Justin Kopepasah" title="Justin Kopepasah" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/emma-young/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/emma_young-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Emma Young" title="Emma Young" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/jennifer-farhat/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/jennifer_farhat-150x150.jpeg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Jennifer Farhat" title="Jennifer Farhat" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/igor-ligay/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/igor_ligay-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Igor Ligay" title="Igor 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src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/rachel_winchester-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Rachel Winchester" title="Rachel Winchester" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/ajay-dsouza/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/ajay-min-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Ajay D&#8217;Souza" title="Ajay D&#8217;Souza" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/mark-andrew-nordstrom/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/mark-andrew-nordstrom-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Mark-Andrew Nordstrom" title="Mark-Andrew Nordstrom" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/samantha-mueller/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/samantha_meuller-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 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src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ema_claire-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Ema DeRosia" title="Ema DeRosia" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/nikhil-vimal/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/rsz_-rpbnkvk-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Nikhil Vimal" title="Nikhil Vimal" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/juanfra-aldasoro/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/juanfra-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Juanfra Aldasoro" title="Juanfra Aldasoro" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/leo-gopal/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/DSC05695-x-scaled-e1655124360632-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Leo Gopal" title="Leo Gopal" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/jordan-quintal/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/jordanq-150x150.png" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Jordan Quintal" title="Jordan Quintal" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/?post_type=hp-contributors&p=321"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/dsc08733-square-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Private: Lara Littlefield" title="Private: Lara Littlefield" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/rafael-ehlers/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/rafael-ehlers-2023-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Rafael Ehlers" title="Rafael Ehlers" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/julie-kuehl/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/kuehl-headshot-150x150.jpeg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Julie Kuehl" title="Julie Kuehl" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/dan-griffiths/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/dan_griffiths-150x150.png" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Dan Griffiths" title="Dan Griffiths" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/mika-epstein/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/mika_600-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Mika Epstein" title="Mika Epstein" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/ramya-pandyan/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ramya_600_2-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Ramya Pandyan" title="Ramya Pandyan" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/aditya-kane/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/aditya-kane-150x150.png" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Aditya Kane" title="Aditya Kane" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/sean-davis/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/seandavis-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Sean Davis" title="Sean Davis" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/saurabh-shukla/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/saurabh_shukla-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Saurabh Shukla" title="Saurabh Shukla" /></a></li><li><a href="https://heropress.com/contributors/andrey-rarst-savchenko/"><img width="50" height="50" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/rarst-150x150.jpg" class="attachment-50x50 size-50x50 wp-post-image" alt="Andrey &#8220;Rarst&#8221; Savchenko" title="Andrey &#8220;Rarst&#8221; Savchenko" /></a></li></ul>



<div class="wp-block-kadence-image kb-image7473_89b59f-1f"><a href="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/CleanShot-2023-03-03-at-13.57.23@2x.png" class="kb-advanced-image-link"><img width="1024" height="124" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/CleanShot-2023-03-03-at-13.57.23@2x-1024x124.png" alt="horizontal rule" class="kb-img wp-image-5357" /></a></div>
</div>

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<p>HeroPress has allowed me to attend dozens of WordCamps around the world, including Pune, WC Europe, WC Asia, WC US, WC Italy, and many many more. At every WordCamp someone comes up to me and says &#8220;Hi, we met at such and such a WordCamp! Thanks so much for what you do.&#8221;</p>



<h2 class="kt-adv-heading7473_9cde24-b5 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading">The Stories</h2>



<p>Oh the stories!  Every single one is a delight. People ask me what my favorite one is, and I can never tell.  They&#8217;re all great. Some make me laugh, some make me cry.  All of them make me glad I&#8217;m in WordPress and that I&#8217;m involved in this wonderful thing called HeroPress.</p>



<h2 id="future" class="kt-adv-heading7473_cf8c91-97 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading">The Future</h2>



<p>HeroPress is committed to sharing inspiring stories from around the world, showing how WordPress has helped individuals overcome challenges and create new opportunities. Maintaining the site and producing the content takes time, effort, and resources. To ensure that HeroPress continues on into the future, we need your financial support.</p>



<p>As costs rise and obligations shift, our ability to highlight these important voices can become more difficult. </p>



<p>HeroPress isn’t just a website — it’s a platform that brings hope and connection to the global WordPress community. Your financial support ensures that we can keep sharing these stories, helping to inspire more people through the power of WordPress.</p>



<p>Like all websites, HeroPress needs </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>maintenance</li>



<li>content creation</li>



<li>tools</li>



<li>opportunities to reach out to people</li>
</ul>



<p>Please consider donating $5, $10, or whatever you can afford today. Your support keeps HeroPress alive and helps us continue sharing the powerful stories that uplift the WordPress community. Every contribution counts!</p>



<p>Thank you for 10 years together. Here’s to the next 10!</p>


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<p>The post <a href="https://heropress.com/ten-years-of-heropress/">Ten Years Of HeroPress</a> appeared first on <a href="https://heropress.com">HeroPress</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 09 Oct 2024 20:09:47 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:19;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:72:"WPTavern: Mary Hubbard to be the New Executive Director of WordPress.org";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=174434";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:83:"https://wptavern.com/mary-hubbard-to-be-the-new-executive-director-of-wordpress-org";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:3329:"<p>Matt Mullenweg has <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/proud-mary/">announced</a> that Mary Hubbard will take over as the new Executive Director of WordPress.org on 21st October, 2024, following the resignation of <a href="https://wptavern.com/thank-you-josepha-wordpress-executive-director-resigns">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a>. </p>



<p>Mary is taking on this new role after stepping down as the Head of TikTok Americas, Governance and Experience. <strong>She is not a stranger to the WordPress arena, having worked at Automattic from 2020 to 2023 as GM Marketplace and Chief Experience/Product Officer for WordPress.com. </strong>Her diverse experience also includes roles at TruRating, Assurant, Walmart, and eBay. </p>



<p>Matt expressed his enthusiasm, stating, “I’m very excited to have Mary on board. :)”. He also said that &#8220;she has deep knowledge of WordPress and expertise across business, product, marketplaces, program management, and governance.&#8221;</p>



<p>When asked if Mary’s appointment is a “1:1 backfill for Josepha&#8217;s role or if her scope will be different?” <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41781008">Matt said</a>, “<strong>The scope will be significantly broader as Mary brings many talents to the ecosystem.”</strong></p>



<p>Mary will be an Automattic employee and she will work for the WordPress project. She steps into the position during a challenging time, as <a href="https://wptavern.com/159-employees-leave-automattic-after-accepting-the-alignment-offer">159 employees</a>, including the former executive director, Josepha, left Automattic after accepting the Alignment Offer. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Community Response&nbsp;</h3>



<p>The community is cautiously optimistic in the light of the recent events.&nbsp;</p>



<a href="https://x.com/marybaum/status/1843817143223366100"><img width="500" height="124" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-3-500x124.png" alt="" class="wp-image-174475" /></a>



<a href="https://x.com/jamesgiroux/status/1843741806162522192"><img width="500" height="414" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-9-500x414.png" alt="" class="wp-image-174483" /></a>



<a href="https://x.com/mattbeck/status/1843757060976193979"><img width="500" height="226" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-5-500x226.png" alt="" class="wp-image-174477" /></a>



<a href="https://x.com/arniepalmer/status/1843754329900998753"><img width="500" height="356" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-6-500x356.png" alt="" class="wp-image-174478" /></a>



<a href="https://x.com/kellie/status/1843748495653822651"><img width="500" height="182" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-7-500x182.png" alt="" class="wp-image-174479" /></a>



<a href="https://x.com/ellenbauer/status/1843744793538781229"><img width="500" height="275" tabindex="0" src="https://wptavern.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-8-500x275.png" alt="" class="wp-image-174480" /></a>



<p>Automattic&#8217;s last big hire was <a href="https://wptavern.com/pedraum-pardehpoosh-joins-automattic-as-vp-of-product">Pedraum Pardehpoosh</a> , who joined as VP of Product.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 09 Oct 2024 14:45:44 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:20;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:99:"WPTavern: #140 – Donata Stroink-Skillrud on Privacy Policies and Legal Obligations for Businesses";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48:"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=173874";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:113:"https://wptavern.com/podcast/140-donata-stroink-skillrud-on-privacy-policies-and-legal-obligations-for-businesses";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:45977:"Transcript<div>
<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>



<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, privacy policies and legal obligations for businesses.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL in to most podcast players. If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.</p>



<p>So on the podcast today, we have Donata Stroink-Skillrud. Donata is an attorney licensed in Illinois and a certified information privacy professional. She&#8217;s the president and legal engineer of Termageddon, a SaaS that generates website policies and helps keep them up to date with changing legislation. Donata is also a fellow of the American Bar Foundation, Chair of the American Bar Associations e-Privacy Committee and Program Committee, member of the American Bar Association Cyber Legal Task Force, and the American Bar Association&#8217;s representative to the United Nations.</p>



<p>Donata will take us through the ever-changing topic of privacy laws, highlighting the challenges posed to businesses to comply with a myriad of regulations. She talks about the global trend of updating privacy laws to keep up with rapid technological advancements, and new capabilities.</p>



<p>We touch upon the significant moral and legal responsibilities tied to use a data management. Donata stresses the importance of privacy by design, which integrates privacy measures from the starts to the end of a project life cycle.</p>



<p>She shares real life examples of common pitfalls, such as misleading cookie banners, and offers best practices for embedding privacy in web development.</p>



<p>Donata explains the importance of including disclaimers in contracts to mitigate legal liabilities, and provides actionable resources, including her own website policies waiver, which helps website builders navigate the complexities of legal compliance.</p>



<p>We also discuss the landscape of international laws applicability, the high cost of specialized legal compliance, and how you need to be mindful of what&#8217;s coming in the next few years.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re keen to find out more about the current legal landscape, or just want some more knowledge to ensure your projects are legally sound and ethically responsible, this episode is for you.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>



<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Donata Stroink-Skillrud.</p>



<p>I am joined on the podcast by Donata Stroink-Skillrud. How are you doing Donata?</p>



<p>[00:03:38] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Doing great. Thank you so much for having me.</p>



<p>[00:03:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You&#8217;re very welcome. Donata is joining me in Oregon, we&#8217;re at WordCamp US. And, Donata, I&#8217;m guessing you haven&#8217;t done your presentation yet, because nobody&#8217;s done a presentation yet. Are you feeling confident? Is this something you do regularly?</p>



<p>[00:03:51] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> It is something that I do on a regular basis. I am a textbook over preparer so I have 80 slides, and only 45 minutes to go through all of them. So I&#8217;m a little nervous about that. But I had my slides ready like two months ago, I&#8217;ve just been reviewing them over and over again, so hopefully I&#8217;ll do okay.</p>



<p>[00:04:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Better to be prepared than not prepared.</p>



<p>[00:04:11] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> I&#8217;m always over prepared, and then it just ends up, I don&#8217;t go through like half the things that I need to talk about, so we&#8217;ll see.</p>



<p>[00:04:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, you&#8217;re a lawyer, over-prepared, I guess, in that profession is good. So, okay, that introduces us to the bio. So you&#8217;re on the podcast today, and we&#8217;re going to be talking about the legal side of WordPress, and the web industry, and what have you.</p>



<p>Do you want to just give us your little potted bio? I know that you sent one to me, I don&#8217;t know how much of that you want to use. But tell us just a little bit about your background, especially on the law side of things, because I feel that&#8217;s where we need to know that you&#8217;ve got the chops to talk about what we&#8217;re talking about.</p>



<p>[00:04:43] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. So to start on the law side, I&#8217;m not providing legal advice on this podcast. So if you are looking for that, I would recommend talking to a lawyer in your area. But I am an attorney licensed in Illinois, and a certified information privacy professional. I&#8217;m also the president and legal engineer behind Termageddon, which has generated tens of thousands of privacy policies, and kept them up to date with changing laws.</p>



<p>Outside of that job, I&#8217;m a fellow at the American Bar Foundation. At the American Bar Association, I&#8217;m the chair of the e-Privacy Committee, member of the Cybersecurity Legal Task Force, and also member of the Science and Technology Council, and I&#8217;m actually the new ABA representative to the United Nations.</p>



<p>[00:05:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, so you are the real deal basically. You&#8217;ve got all of the chops, so that&#8217;s really nice to hear.</p>



<p>So your presentation, when it&#8217;s finally done, is called Building WordPress Websites with Privacy by Data in Mind, and Privacy by Data is encapsulated in quotes. This feels like it was a really big trend a few years ago. Everybody seemed to be concerned about privacy, and then it kind of seems like it went off the boil a little bit. And I&#8217;m presuming that you are saying, no, no, no, this is still something that&#8217;s very important.</p>



<p>Where are we at with privacy? What&#8217;s the state of play? I don&#8217;t know if you can encapsulate that in just a few short sentences.</p>



<p>[00:05:58] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So I think when it comes to privacy, we&#8217;re kind of the frogs that are boiling in the water now. So, you know, you had GDPR that came out, and everybody was really excited about that, and that was huge. And that&#8217;s continuing, in the sense that there are dozens and dozens of fines issued every month, for privacy violations under GDPR. So if you want to check that out, that&#8217;s under enforcementtracker.com. And it&#8217;s anywhere from Facebook to a person who doesn&#8217;t even have a business that&#8217;s been fined.</p>



<p>In the US it&#8217;s a little bit different, in the sense that we have this kind of hodgepodge of laws. So each state is proposing and passing its own law, because we do have federal laws for healthcare data, or children&#8217;s data, but not for things that are usually collected by websites, like names, and emails and stuff.</p>



<p>But what&#8217;s really interesting, the newest trend in the United States that we&#8217;ve seen in the last few months is adapting really old privacy laws. So for example, the California Invasion of Privacy Act, 30-year-old privacy law, was meant to protect Californians from eavesdropping on landline phone calls, but it&#8217;s adapted to websites. So every day there&#8217;s over a dozen lawsuits filed in California for websites that use tools like IP intelligence tools, Facebook pixel, things like that, without consent from a California user.</p>



<p>Very similar, under the Video Privacy Protection Act, which is a federal law, it was meant to protect people&#8217;s video rental histories. So from places like Blockbuster, you couldn&#8217;t share what videos you rented from Blockbuster with a third party. Well, that&#8217;s been adapted to websites as well. So if you have a website that has a YouTube video, for example, and Meta pixel is tracking who watched that video, and you&#8217;re showing them ads, and you didn&#8217;t get consent for that pixel, you could actually get sued for that.</p>



<p>So we&#8217;re seeing so many lawsuits in the United States right now. It&#8217;s really, really crazy. And we&#8217;re also seeing a lot of states taking enforcement more seriously. Texas Privacy Law just went into effect. They formed an entire team within the Attorney General&#8217;s office, to enforce that law. And they&#8217;re actually going after companies, and sending letters for non-compliance. So I think in the United States, privacy&#8217;s really, really hitting up right now.</p>



<p>[00:08:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Is this generally kind of ambulance chasing litigation? Is it people going out and finding problems in order to sue, or is it more that people have been harmed, and so they&#8217;ve progressed some kind of legal case because, I don&#8217;t know, some of their data has escaped and they&#8217;ve been harmed by it? Maybe there&#8217;s not a perfect answer to that, but it always feels like the ambulance chasing component is part of it.</p>



<p>[00:08:29] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So it really depends on the country. So for example, like in the European Union, we see these privacy fines being issued when there&#8217;s actual harm. So great example is a company got sued because they were calling somebody that were on a do not call list. The person said, I don&#8217;t want this, they got 30 more phone calls over the span of a week. And they kept on saying, I don&#8217;t want this, I don&#8217;t want this, please take me off your list, and they continued calling them. So they complained to data protection authority. You know, that seems a lot more like a harm.</p>



<p>In the United States, especially with the California Invasion of Privacy Act, it started off with healthcare websites. So if I go on a healthcare website, and I input my data, and that data is shared with Facebook, lawsuits started off that way, which is much more of a harm approach.</p>



<p>But now they&#8217;re suing anyone. So they have some type of list where, here&#8217;s businesses that have the Meta pixel, for example, and they just go down that list. And they have a California individual who clicks on that website, they get tracked, boom, here&#8217;s a lawsuit.</p>



<p>So we&#8217;re seeing a lot of really small businesses getting caught up with this, you know, people selling coaching services. I know of somebody who was selling patches for people who are veterans, and they got sued. They&#8217;re like, we&#8217;re a tiny business, how are we getting sued $60,000 for having a Meta pixel on our site? So here in the US it seems a lot more like ambulance chasing for sure.</p>



<p>[00:09:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I guess at the bottom of it all though is a moral position. If you&#8217;re surrendering, data and you haven&#8217;t authorised somebody to, I don&#8217;t know, use that data, sell that data, move that data on, there is a moral obligation for the person who&#8217;s running this website to do the right thing by that person&#8217;s data.</p>



<p>And it&#8217;s often framed as ambulance chasing, but I guess unless there&#8217;s a bit of a carrot and stick approach where, you know, for a period of time there&#8217;s ambulance chasers, nothing would change. People would abuse the sharing of data. So maybe that&#8217;s the period that we&#8217;re in. I can&#8217;t remember how you described it at the beginning. You used the phrase which kind of.</p>



<p>[00:10:25] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Frogs boiling in water.</p>



<p>[00:10:26] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Right, okay. So it&#8217;s that moment in time, but that&#8217;s just the lay of the land now. And it does feel like, across the pond, where I live in Europe, things are sort of skewed slightly differently. Maybe there&#8217;s less of the ambulance chasing. But as I say, right at the bottom of it all is, well, some sort of moral compulsion to do the right thing by your data. And if the law is how that needs to be enforced, then that&#8217;s how it needs to be enforced.</p>



<p>It does feel though, like you said, that it&#8217;s kind of gone off the, well, boil, for want of a better word, with the frog analogy. But maybe you are here to tell us that that&#8217;s a little bit different.</p>



<p>Firstly, there is no one size fits all. If we&#8217;re in Europe, it would be on a country by country basis. If you&#8217;re in the US, it would be on a state by state basis. From the WordPress perspective, let&#8217;s take the example of somebody that&#8217;s just got a vanilla version of WordPress. So they&#8217;ve got no forms on there, it&#8217;s just downloaded directly from the internet, they&#8217;ve got a five page brochure website. Does anything inside a vanilla version of WordPress raise any kind of privacy flags?</p>



<p>[00:11:25] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> I really think it depends, right? Because some people do just have a pure brochure website, there&#8217;s no forms, there&#8217;s nothing else, and privacy really starts becoming an issue when you&#8217;re collecting personal data. So names, emails, phone numbers, IP addresses, device identifiers, things like that. But I think for anybody that&#8217;s running a business, right? Like if I create a personal recipe website that I just use with my husband, which we do have, you know, it&#8217;s not a big deal because it&#8217;s just a personal use type of situation.</p>



<p>But if you&#8217;re running a business, you&#8217;re almost always installing other tools. You&#8217;re installing Google Analytics, you&#8217;re installing Google Fonts, you&#8217;re installing Recaptcha, you know, you&#8217;re having these forms, you&#8217;re linking to other websites. That&#8217;s when privacy can really become an issue. So it does depend individually on your setup, but as long as your site is collecting data, either on the front end or the back end, that&#8217;s when you need to be aware of these things.</p>



<p>[00:12:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And when you say collecting data, it&#8217;s not just that there are form fields to be filled out on the front, the mere presence of, like you said, a Google Font, that was a sort of famous thing in the European Union, where the font I think was stored in the US, the file that that was taken from was in the US, and I think it was in Germany, the website, and somebody got prosecuted for that. But there&#8217;s nothing to fill in. It&#8217;s just, there&#8217;s something on the backend, Google Analytics, whatever it may be. So you do need to be mindful of this. You do need to think about it.</p>



<p>[00:12:48] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Absolutely. And I think the one thing that we&#8217;re seeing as a trend right now is, especially with web designers, is starting to become more aware of these things, looking at alternatives, right? So for Google Fonts, it&#8217;s non-compliant with GDPR, because of that court decision, we can just host it locally. So you don&#8217;t have to get consent because it doesn&#8217;t track people, it doesn&#8217;t collect data, it doesn&#8217;t place cookies, right? So that&#8217;s a great alternative.</p>



<p>But for other things like a contact form, there&#8217;s not really an alternative. You&#8217;re going to have to collect data as a business owner, and there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that inherently, you just have to follow certain rules.</p>



<p>[00:13:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Let&#8217;s say with the contact form example, is it that you are collecting that data, and it&#8217;s being stored in a database? Is that where the problem arises, or is it the fact that that data at some point touched your infrastructure? So, as an example, let&#8217;s say I set up a contact form, and all it&#8217;s getting is, I don&#8217;t know, name, email, and message fields. But I have a plugin, and I&#8217;ve utilised the feature in that plugin to immediately expunge the database once the form&#8217;s been sent. So I receive the form, the form is processed on the backend, but immediately deleted, but I&#8217;ve got an email with that data in it. Is my website compliant because of that, or the fact that it&#8217;s sending data, does that make me non-compliant?</p>



<p>[00:13:57] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So it&#8217;s both. It&#8217;s the fact that that data&#8217;s been collected, even if it&#8217;s deleted immediately, as well as it&#8217;s been shared with your email service provider, and you&#8217;re storing it in your email as well. And that doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that you&#8217;re non-compliant, it just means that you have to get compliant. You know what I mean? So you do have to do certain things, like obtain consent for the collection of that data, use it responsibly, provide a privacy policy, all of those types of things.</p>



<p>[00:14:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> If I was going through anything in life that required legal thought processes, I wouldn&#8217;t assume that I could do it myself. I&#8217;d work on the basis that I need to hire a professional. I don&#8217;t know, I&#8217;m moving house and I need, we call them conveyancers, which is a particular kind of lawyer that deals with moving of property, and all of the titles and deeds that go with that. I wouldn&#8217;t think I can do that myself.</p>



<p>And yet we&#8217;re in an industry where I&#8217;m assuming most people who build websites, probably a lot of the listeners to this, won&#8217;t be making those judgements. They might not be contacting lawyers. Is that potentially a move which you shouldn&#8217;t be making? Should you be consulting lawyers on this for each and every website? Because it kind of feels that that in itself might put you out of business because of the cost of hiring lawyers. So I don&#8217;t know what your thoughts are on that.</p>



<p>[00:15:05] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah, so I think it is a dangerous idea, right? It&#8217;s one of those things where, you know, I own a house, and I know that there&#8217;s certain things I can do in that house, like I can rewire my thermostat. But I know I can&#8217;t rewire the entire electricity, because my house is going to burn down, because I have no idea what I&#8217;m doing, right? I think when it comes to web designers, there are a couple things that you should be aware of.</p>



<p>So first of all, if you&#8217;re the one that&#8217;s providing the policy to the client, so let&#8217;s say your client&#8217;s like, hey, I need a privacy policy, and you&#8217;re like, oh no problem, I&#8217;ll give you a template, or I&#8217;m going to write it for you. You&#8217;re assuming that liability now.</p>



<p>[00:15:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, the mere suggestion of, I&#8217;ll pass on a template for you, I as a web developer, as a web designer, that&#8217;s now on me.</p>



<p>[00:15:47] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah exactly, because you&#8217;re the one that provided this template to them. And the issue there is that you&#8217;re probably not going to get paid enough for that website to cover the cost of non-compliance. So with privacy, you know, there&#8217;s lawsuits starting at $30,000, there&#8217;s fines starting at $2,500 per violation. So per violation means per website visitor. So let&#8217;s say I have 100 website visitors from California, and I don&#8217;t have a compliant privacy policy, that&#8217;s 2,500 times 100, that&#8217;s how my fine would be calculated. You&#8217;re not getting paid enough for that website to justify that kind of cost in taking on this type of liability.</p>



<p>So I think as web designers, we do have to tell people, hey, I built this website for you, it&#8217;s collecting data, I&#8217;m not a lawyer, but I do know that there are some legal things that could come up with this. There are some issues that could happen with this. You should talk to a lawyer, or you should use another tool to get compliant.</p>



<p>You give them that recommendation because a lot of clients just may not know that, right? They&#8217;re not tech savvy, or they don&#8217;t know any of this because they&#8217;re not in this industry. And you tell them that, and then it&#8217;s the client&#8217;s responsibility.</p>



<p>Same thing with your contracts. Make sure your contracts don&#8217;t say, agency will be responsible for making sure that the website is compliant with all applicable laws, rules, and regulations. And if that sounds like a quote, it is, because there are a lot of templates out there that say that. Make sure your contract doesn&#8217;t say that, and make sure your client understands that&#8217;s not your responsibility, that&#8217;s their responsibility.</p>



<p>[00:17:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So if I have a contract with a client, they&#8217;ve come to me, I&#8217;ve built their website, I&#8217;ve handed it over, does ignorance count in any way, or do I need to explicitly put in writing, I have said to you, you need legal advice, now go and find it? Are there templates for that, dare I ask? Or is the mere templating of that sentence itself going to put me in hot water? In other words, is there a way that I can offhand this sensibly, in a repeatable fashion, where I can, I don&#8217;t know, just copy a document over to the client? Can that be done? Can I expunge the responsibility from myself fairly easily?</p>



<p>[00:17:50] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah, you can. So the first step would be to have that in your contract so, you know, if a lawyer wrote your contract, talk to them about it, have them add that in. I would also recommend adding, we&#8217;re not responsible for accessibility, or any other compliance issues, which would be helpful. And at Termageddon we have something called the Website Policies Waiver, and you don&#8217;t actually have to use our service to use it, but it&#8217;s basically a two pager that explains what this is, why it&#8217;s important.</p>



<p>It has the clients sign off on the fact that you&#8217;re not the one that&#8217;s responsible. And it gives them a couple of options, like you&#8217;ll provide your own policies, you&#8217;ll use Termageddon, or you won&#8217;t do anything. But the client signs off on it, so it&#8217;s all documented.</p>



<p>I think we&#8217;re kind of at this point right now where there&#8217;s so many lawsuits that I would not, I mean, personally, if I was a web designer, I wouldn&#8217;t just say that and then move on, I would have that in writing somewhere.</p>



<p>[00:18:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Is it possible to have a catch all document like that? You just made a point that, you know, if you&#8217;ve got a hundred visitors from California, then that&#8217;s going to be impacting. And obviously, as a website developer, unless I&#8217;m geofencing the IP addresses and saying, no, Californians, you may not even look at my website. And honestly, who&#8217;s doing that? Nobody. It would be nice to have visitors from California. That&#8217;s almost the point of having a web presence.</p>



<p>Do I need to worry about that? Do I need to worry about every single jurisdiction on earth, or can my British, in my case, based lawyer take that on for me?</p>



<p>[00:19:11] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Sometimes they can, sometimes they can&#8217;t. So if you are working with a lawyer, I would ask them, what privacy laws do you intend to cover here? And they should be asking you questions to figure out what laws apply to you, because all of this depends on what laws apply to you. So each law has different compliance requirements. So that&#8217;s the number one thing that must be done.</p>



<p>So if you are working with a lawyer, I would ask them, hey, help me figure out what laws apply to me. What laws are you comfortable covering? What laws are you not comfortable covering? How do you write this policy? How do you intend to update this policy for me? Are there extra charges for updating, and things like that?</p>



<p>I think it&#8217;s important to note that, just because your website could randomly be accessible anywhere in the world, that doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that all the laws apply to you. So for example, like some laws, like Nevada, you have to do business in the state. So you have to have customers there, or ship there, or things like that. Some laws have business size restrictions, so you have to make a certain amount of revenue, like $25 million, or you have to collect the data of a certain number of people. So there are a lot of factors that go into figuring out what laws actually apply.</p>



<p>[00:20:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;m obviously not a lawyer, but I know that if I want to move house, I&#8217;m going to contact conveyancer. I have a friend who is a maritime lawyer, and I know that he deals exclusively with freight, boats out on the ocean. In other words, there&#8217;s a specific kind of lawyer for a specific kind of law. Is that the case here? Is there a growing industry of web-based, online lawyers, and are they preferred, or could I walk down my high street and use any old lawyer?</p>



<p>[00:20:41] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So there are a lot of privacy lawyers out there. So the International Association of Privacy Professionals, iapp.org, which I&#8217;m a part of, certifies lawyers and privacy, and also has a directory of lawyers you can find there as well. It&#8217;s difficult because you may go to a business lawyer and they may say, oh yeah, no problem, I&#8217;ll write you a privacy policy, and then get some template online, or something like that. So definitely make sure to ask them, are you experienced in this area of law? Because it is very, very specific, and it&#8217;s very intricate. You know, I used to be a business lawyer back in the day, and I didn&#8217;t know anything about privacy. So you do have to be careful with that.</p>



<p>[00:21:16] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It sounded like the search that you might perform on Google there would be privacy lawyer.</p>



<p>[00:21:20] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yep, privacy lawyer. And then you would put in like your city.</p>



<p>[00:21:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, perfect. So your presentation at WordCamp was called, Building WordPress Websites with ‘Privacy by Design’ in Mind. And it sounds like you&#8217;ve got some tips there, some short circuit things that you might want to be thinking about. Let&#8217;s go through a few of those. What is in your presentation? What things can we have at the front of our mind if we&#8217;re building websites, which clearly people listening to this is doing are doing?</p>



<p>[00:21:46] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So, I&#8217;m going to start off first by just talking about what privacy by design is, and why it&#8217;s important. So kind of going over some of the legal requirements, like the laws that specifically talk about privacy by design, and what they say, and what&#8217;s happening with them. And then also talking about what privacy by design is, which is basically the integration of privacy throughout the entire life cycle of the project, from the beginning to the very end.</p>



<p>So it starts off with the wire frame designs, and ends with a destruction of data. So privacy is embedded into all of those processes. So a great example would be, if you have a website that has a login form. When somebody puts in their email to reset their password, and they put in the wrong email, you don&#8217;t display, hey, you actually registered with this email instead, right? You know, a well known company got into trouble with this, when you&#8217;re setting up two factor authentication, don&#8217;t add the 2FA information to a marketing list. It was Meta that did that, which was just great.</p>



<p>Things like that, so making sure it&#8217;s, privacy&#8217;s taking into account. And I&#8217;ll also be sharing some examples of bad practices, and examples of good practices. Some examples of the bad practices are cookie consent banners that just have an accept button and no decline. Or the decline is hidden, and tiny font underneath, and doesn&#8217;t even look like a button. Or email unsubscribes that are very confusing, where you can&#8217;t understand, you know, if I check the box, am I opting in or opting out?</p>



<p>The way people display their policies. I have a screenshot of policy that says, analytics, and then it&#8217;s a whole bunch of blank space, and then, how we share your data, and it says, we don&#8217;t share your data with anyone. Things like that, that I think for a lot of people, once you talk about it, it seems really obvious, but if you&#8217;re not a part of that area of expertise, it might not be super obvious at first glance.</p>



<p>And then I&#8217;ll also share some best design practices. So there&#8217;s some really good website design that I&#8217;ve seen, that provides good privacy choices and good design.</p>



<p>And then I&#8217;ll also be giving some tips and cheat sheets. So for example, like when you build a website, tell your client all the third party tools that are on the website. We get on a lot of calls with a lot of people to generate their policies, and they&#8217;re like, I have no idea if I have Google Analytics, right? Well, they should know that because that could be a very privacy invasive tool. And that really affects their compliance requirements. It can even subject them to other privacy laws. But if they don&#8217;t know that, then they don&#8217;t know. So some tips for designers about how to communicate this all to their clients, what they should be talking about, what they should be thinking about.</p>



<p>[00:24:17] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Whenever I think of lawyers, forgive me, I always think that there&#8217;s an element, it&#8217;s a fairly well paid profession, let&#8217;s put it that way. And I would imagine that if I went to my brochure website client and said, okay, I&#8217;m not responsible for this, but here&#8217;s some information, you need to get a lawyer. I&#8217;m imagining that, typically, they might be thinking the same thought. Gosh, that&#8217;s going to end up costing me an absolute arm and a leg.</p>



<p>Is that the case? Can you achieve compliance in a, well, air quotes, affordable way? Or does it end up suddenly adding thousands of dollars of legal fees? Which may actually be the difference with launch, go, no go, you know. Build a website, don&#8217;t build a website. Does it always have to be expensive? And I&#8217;m guessing services like your own, Termageddon is trying to reduce the cost because you can kind of automate a lot of this.</p>



<p>[00:25:04] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I think the cost for a lawyer, it can be expensive depending on where you&#8217;re located. So, you know, if you&#8217;re in downtown Chicago, you&#8217;re going to be paying a lot. If you&#8217;re in southern Illinois, in a smaller town, you may be paying less. But there might not even be a privacy lawyer in your town. You know what I mean?</p>



<p>So I think for a lot of businesses that can become unaffordable. And that&#8217;s why we create a Termageddon, which is kind of a good mesh of these types of things that is affordable for small business. And that was our whole goal, is to make privacy accessible for small businesses. Because I think small businesses do care. They care about their clients. They care about their email list. They care about what they do with the data. It&#8217;s just that they don&#8217;t want to spend $30,000 on this. But you can automate some aspects of it for a much cheaper price.</p>



<p>What some people do is they&#8217;ll generate their policies with a generator, and then give them to a lawyer to review, which is way cheaper than writing a new one. We provide updates as well, which is great.</p>



<p>For people who can afford it, lawyer&#8217;s great. If you can&#8217;t afford it, which I totally understand, you know, we&#8217;re a small business as well, using third party tools like Termageddon is very helpful because it can help you get there without that huge price tag.</p>



<p>[00:26:14] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I guess you&#8217;ve got to figure out what your exposure is. You know, if you&#8217;re doing something really bespoke, and you genuinely are taking people&#8217;s medical data. There&#8217;s no question, you need a bunch of lawyers, specifically to cast their eye over your webite. But if you&#8217;ve just got a personal blog, it&#8217;s probably much more straightforward. Inspect what you&#8217;re doing, and then go and get the legal advice.</p>



<p>But I do like the idea of getting some documentation, maybe from some service like you mentioned, and then getting a lawyer in your local area to sort of look over it.</p>



<p>But it also feels like a movable feast. It feels like, what was yesterday true, may not be true a year, two years, from now. And, is that the case? Is this the kind of set it and forget it in 2024, and then revisit it a decade from now, or is it more a month, a year, two years? Is there an iteration? Is there a sort of cadence that you need to be thinking about?</p>



<p>[00:27:00] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> I wish it was something where like you created it once, and then look at it again in 10 years. Take like a 10 year vacation, it&#8217;d be awesome. Unfortunately, no. There are so many new privacy laws. So in 2025 we have 8 laws going into effect. So these policies are constantly updating all the time. And if you are working with a lawyer, I would recommend asking them what their price is for the updates, so that you&#8217;re not getting a bill every other month for a couple thousand dollars to make those updates. You know what I mean?</p>



<p>But there are a lot of updates that need to be made very, very frequently. From the new laws perspective, there&#8217;s new rules, there&#8217;s new regulations. And here in the US we have these 20, 30-year-old privacy laws being reinterpreted as applying to websites now. So those need updates too, as well as whenever you change your privacy practices, you need to change it too.</p>



<p>So that can get very costly, and it could get complicated, especially if you&#8217;re trying to do this yourself, because tracking this is like a full-time job. I mean, trust me, it is my job to track all of this, and it&#8217;s very, very time consuming. It&#8217;s not one of those things, if you don&#8217;t have anybody helping you with it, it&#8217;s definitely not a set it and forget it solution.</p>



<p>[00:28:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And so is that what you, Donata, spend your day doing? Literally consuming, I don&#8217;t know what it is, information from different jurisdictions, and collating that to try and make it work within your own business. Is that what you spend your time doing?</p>



<p>[00:28:22] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah, pretty much. So I&#8217;m the legal engineer behind all the policies, so I wrote all the policy questions that help figure out what laws apply to you. All the remaining questions that you need to answer. All the answers, all the text variations, which we have hundreds of thousands of tax variations now. And then I&#8217;m also responsible for the updates.</p>



<p>So whenever a new law is passed, you know, I have to track the bills first of all, which so many bills don&#8217;t pass, it&#8217;s like such a waste of time sometimes. You know, I do have to track all of that, and then once something becomes law, before the effective date, I have to put it in the generator and help people update their policies, and everything like that.</p>



<p>[00:28:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So if you use a service like yours, do you then provide something, and then you&#8217;ll, I don&#8217;t know, email an update out, or is it more, I don&#8217;t know, you put something on the website which is automatically updated as you make the adjustments on the Termageddon end, my website is automatically updated, or do I have to copy paste new privacy policies every so often?</p>



<p>[00:29:20] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> No, so when you generate your policies with Termageddon, you get an embed code. The embed code goes onto your website, and that&#8217;s where updates are pushed through. How updates are made kind of depend on the law. So it depends on what new disclosures are required. So if it&#8217;s information that we already know, we push the update automatically for you. If it&#8217;s information that we don&#8217;t already know, we might ask you a question or two, you respond, and then the text update is made automatically to your privacy policy text.</p>



<p>[00:29:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And do you take the responsibility? We talked earlier about who&#8217;s responsible, and at what point can you divest yourself of that responsibility. If I use a service like yours, or a rival, does that mean that I am absolved a responsibility and you have taken it on, or is it more nuanced than that?</p>



<p>[00:30:02] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So when people register with us, they have to accept our privacy policy, and our terms of service, which means that they&#8217;re forming a relationship with us about their policies. So for example, as an agency, you can send clients to us through the affiliate program, you get a promo code or link. They register with us, and we&#8217;re the ones responsible for their policies. When you&#8217;re reselling Termageddon, we recommend sharing the license with a client, so the client has to create an account, and register with us, and acknowledge that we&#8217;re responsible for their policies as well.</p>



<p>[00:30:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. So we&#8217;re in the year 2024, and I honestly don&#8217;t know what the landscape looks like. I&#8217;m presuming that you do a little bit more. Does it feel like more privacy in the future, less privacy in the future, or the same? In other words, if I&#8217;m a jobbing website designer, builder, web developer, whatever it may be, is there more coming down the pike than there is now, or is it the sort of thing that I can worry about the same amount this year as next year?</p>



<p>[00:30:55] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> There&#8217;s a lot more, yeah.</p>



<p>[00:30:56] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> There&#8217;s always more.</p>



<p>[00:30:57] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah, I have a whole spreadsheet of upcoming privacy laws, and it just keeps getting longer, and longer, and longer. And the problem is, in the US there&#8217;s no comprehensive, overarching federal privacy law. So you&#8217;re seeing all of these states propose and pass their own laws. And that&#8217;s a really big issue because it creates this hodgepodge. Because if I&#8217;m a business located in Illinois, I have to comply with laws all over, because I do business there, I collect their personal information. So I don&#8217;t have to be located in a state or country for their laws to apply to me.</p>



<p>So it creates this huge, what we call the privacy law patchwork, which is like the bane of every privacy lawyers existence right now. Because there&#8217;s more and more of these laws, and more and more of these requirements. They don&#8217;t exactly match up across the states. There are some states that have a lot of similarities, there are states that are completely different. You know, some exempt nonprofits, others don&#8217;t. It&#8217;s kind of a mess.</p>



<p>[00:31:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, wow. And that&#8217;s just the US. Map that across the whole world all the 192 odd, whatever it is, countries out there.</p>



<p>[00:31:59] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah. And you know, countries that have had privacy laws for a long time, like Australia with their privacy act from 1988. It&#8217;s been amended a couple times, but due to the changes in technology, and the privacy invasive technology that we&#8217;ve seen, they&#8217;re working on a complete overhaul of their privacy law. So these laws that have been established for a long time, that we&#8217;re very familiar with, are going to completely change as well.</p>



<p>[00:32:21] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So, Australians, watch this space.</p>



<p>[00:32:24] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Yeah.</p>



<p>[00:32:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Where could people contact you if they&#8217;re kind of concerned, or interested, or just want to find out a bit more about Termageddon? Where would they get you?</p>



<p>[00:32:31] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> So you can find our website at termageddon.com. Email me at donata at termmageddon.com, or you can follow us on social media. We&#8217;re just @termageddon everywhere. Definitely feel free to reach out.</p>



<p>[00:32:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Head to wptavern.com, search for Donata&#8217;s episode, and I&#8217;ll have put all of the links there in the show notes, if you didn&#8217;t manage to capture any of those. Everything should be there. So, Donata, thank you so much for chatting to me today. I appreciate it.</p>



<p>[00:32:54] <strong>Donata Stroink-Skillrud:</strong> Thank you for having me.</p>
</div>



<p>On the podcast today we have <a href="https://x.com/termageddon">Donata Stroink-Skillrud</a>.</p>



<p>Donata is an attorney licensed in Illinois and a Certified Information Privacy Professional. She is the President and Legal Engineer of <a href="https://termageddon.com/">Termageddon</a>, a SaaS that generates website policies and helps keep them up to date with changing legislation. Donata is also a Fellow of the American Bar Foundation, Chair of the American Bar Association&#8217;s ePrivacy Committee and Program Committee, member of the ABA&#8217;s Cybersecurity Legal Task Force and the American Bar Association&#8217;s Representative to the United Nations.</p>



<p>Donata will take us through the ever changing topic of privacy laws, highlighting the challenges posed to businesses to comply with a myriad of regulations. She talks about the global trend of updating privacy laws to keep up with rapid technological advancements and new capabilities.</p>



<p>We touch upon the significant moral and legal responsibilities tied to user data management. Donata stresses the importance of &#8216;Privacy by Design,&#8217; which integrates privacy measures from the start to the end of a project lifecycle. She shares real-life examples of common pitfalls, such as misleading cookie banners, and offers best practices for embedding privacy in web development.</p>



<p>Donata explains the importance of including disclaimers in contracts to mitigate legal liabilities and provides actionable resources, including her own &#8220;Website Policies Waiver,&#8221; which helps website builders navigate the complexities of legal compliance.</p>



<p>We also discuss the landscape of international law applicability, the high costs of specialised legal compliance, and how you need to be mindful of what’s coming in the next few years.</p>



<p>If you’re keen to find out more about the current legal landscape, or just want some more knowledge to ensure your projects are legally sound and ethically responsible, this episode is for you.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Useful links</h2>



<p><a href="https://termageddon.com/">Termageddon website</a></p>



<p><a href="https://www.americanbarfoundation.org/">American Bar Foundation</a></p>



<p><a href="https://www.americanbar.org/">American Bar Association</a></p>



<p><a href="https://www.americanbar.org/groups/cybersecurity/">Cybersecurity Legal Task Force</a></p>



<p>Donata&#8217;s presentation at WordCamp US &#8211; <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/building-wordpress-websites-with-privacy-by-design-in-mind/">Building WordPress Websites with Privacy by Data in Mind</a></p>



<p><a href="https://enforcementtracker.com/">GDPR Enforcement Tracker website</a></p>



<p><a href="https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/resources/business-law-today/2024-august/californias-invasion-privacy-act/">California Invasion of Privacy Act</a></p>



<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act">Video Privacy Protection Act</a></p>



<p><a href="https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/consumer-protection/file-consumer-complaint/consumer-privacy-rights/texas-data-privacy-and-security-act">Texas Privacy Law</a></p>



<p><a href="https://termageddon.com/policies/disclaimer-generator/">Termageddon&#8217;s Disclaimer Generator</a></p>



<p><a href="https://iapp.org/">International Association of Privacy Professionals</a></p>



<p><a href="https://x.com/termageddon">Termageddon&#8217;s X / Twitter</a></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 09 Oct 2024 14:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Nathan Wrigley";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:21;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:57:"Akismet: How to Prevent Contact Form Spam without CAPTCHA";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"http://akismet.com/?p=284201";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:59:"https://akismet.com/blog/prevent-form-spam-without-captcha/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:19898:"<p>Contact forms are an essential part of your website, but the unfortunate reality is that they attract spam like a magnet. So, if your inbox is overrun with spam form submissions, the genuine inquiries will be overshadowed. And that stands to make your life a lot more&nbsp;difficult.</p>

<p>CAPTCHA is a familiar option to stop spam, but it can drive potential customers away due to inconvenience. You know you’re not a robot, but sometimes CAPTCHA&nbsp;disagrees.</p>

<p>Fortunately, there are other ways to stop spam without making your site visitors jump through&nbsp;hoops.</p>

<p>Modern anti&#8209;spam solutions are much more accessible and user&#8209;friendly than CAPTCHA. So let’s explore some of these and get the clutter out of your&nbsp;inbox.</p>


<span id="more-284201"></span>


<h2 id="why-captcha-is-to-be-avoided-in 2024" class="wp-block-heading">Why CAPTCHA is to be avoided in&nbsp;2024</h2>


<p><a href="https://akismet.com/blog/what-is-captcha/">CAPTCHA</a> has been around for years now. Anyone who’s been online is familiar with deciphering distorted letters or selecting all the squares that contain a certain object — the typical CAPTCHA fare.&nbsp;</p>


<p>So what’s the problem? CAPTCHA is far from ideal, especially if you want to maximize user engagement, lead generation, or sales on your site. Some of the downsides to CAPTCHA&nbsp;include:</p>


<ul class="wp-block-list"><li><strong>User experience issues</strong>: CAPTCHA is perceived as a nuisance. When people click a button to do something, they don’t want to be forced to do picture puzzles or math problems. It’s frustrating to be interrupted by a CAPTCHA when you just want to fill out a&nbsp;form.</li>

<li><strong>Accessibility concerns</strong>: It also poses significant accessibility challenges, particularly for those with visual impairments. For some people, it’s impossible to interact with them. While audio CAPTCHAs exist, these cause problems, too. Relying on CAPTCHA means you risk alienating a portion of your&nbsp;audience.</li>

<li><strong>Decreased conversion rates</strong>: Ultimately, anything that disrupts the user journey will damage conversion rates. If what’s beyond the CAPTCHA isn’t valuable enough, people will simply abandon the form, and you just lost a conversion. If you want visitors to do something, you should minimize the number of barriers in the&nbsp;way.</li></ul>


<p>At one time, CAPTCHA was the most effective way to stop spam. But with new advances in online technology, things have&nbsp;changed.</p>

<h2 id="how-to-stop-form-spam-without captcha" class="wp-block-heading">How to stop form spam without&nbsp;CAPTCHA</h2>

<p>You no longer need to rely on CAPTCHA to protect your forms from spam. There are several effective, <a href="https://akismet.com/blog/captcha-alternatives/">more user&#8209;friendly methods</a> worth exploring. Let’s take a look at some of the potential strategies to block form spam without sacrificing conversions or&nbsp;accessibility.</p>

<h3 class="wp-block-heading">1. Akismet: The AI&#8209;powered solution that blocks 99.99% of&nbsp;spam</h3>

<p>What if there was something that could stop contact form spam without your visitors even knowing it’s there? Something that requires minimal configuration, has no confusing setup, and just&nbsp;works?</p>

<p>That describes Akismet perfectly. Powered by advanced AI and machine learning, Akismet excels at identifying and blocking spam submissions with an impressive accuracy of 99.99%. And it works entirely behind the&nbsp;scenes.</p>

<p>How does it work? Just as you know the email offering an inheritance from a foreign prince in exchange for your banking details is fake, Akismet can sniff out spam at a&nbsp;glance.</p>

<p>Akismet uses a massive database of known spam and a machine learning algorithm that becomes more intelligent the more spam it blocks. As spammers change their methods, Akismet evolves with&nbsp;them.</p>

<p>Each time a form is submitted, Akismet compares the data against its database, flagging any submissions that match common spam patterns. That way, only legitimate messages make it to your inbox. It’s the most reliable way to keep your contact forms&nbsp;spam&#8209;free.</p>

<h3 id="2-honeypot-a-decent-yet-limited solution" class="wp-block-heading">2. Honeypot: A decent yet limited&nbsp;solution</h3>

<p>The <a href="https://akismet.com/blog/what-is-a-honeypot/">honeypot technique</a> is another popular method for dealing with form spam, and while it has its merits, it comes with many&nbsp;limitations.</p>

<p>The idea behind it is simple: you add an extra, hidden field to your form that human users can’t see. Spambots can see it and usually fill out every field they detect in a form. When a form is submitted with this trap field filled out, the submission is flagged and&nbsp;discarded.</p>

<p>While a honeypot is effective against basic spambots, they often fall short. Advanced bots detect these hidden fields and bypass them, or intentionally avoid unusual fields. Some bots even use machine learning to detect honeypots and only fill out necessary&nbsp;fields.</p>

<p>That means, over time, your spam protection becomes less and less effective — unlike AI&#8209;based solutions like Akismet which adapts in real&#8209;time to new threats. Honeypots are static and leave your forms vulnerable to new types of&nbsp;spam.</p>

<h3 id="3-session-cookies-unreliable-and complex" class="wp-block-heading">3. Session cookies: Unreliable and&nbsp;complex</h3>

<p>Session cookies are another method used to block spam. This involves setting a cookie when someone visits your site, which keeps track of their session and behavior. This is checked when they submit a form. If spammy behavior is detected, the submission is&nbsp;flagged.</p>

<p>While this approach is also effective against simple bots, it’s far from foolproof. Advanced bots readily spoof legitimate behavior, so this method is unreliable. Also, relying on session cookies causes problems for legitimate users who browse with strong privacy settings or disabled&nbsp;cookies.</p>

<p>Another drawback is the complexity involved in setting up session cookies to block spam. This requires a lot of technical knowledge, and it doesn’t even work as well as other&nbsp;solutions.</p>

<h3 class="wp-block-heading">4. Email filtering: Weak and&nbsp;time&#8209;consuming</h3>

<p>Email filtering is another method for managing contact form spam. This approach involves setting up filters in your email client that automatically hide messages that appear to be spam. It identifies these based on blocklisted email addresses or suspicious&nbsp;keywords.</p>

<p>The primary issue here is that they’re often ineffective. There’s a good chance that something will slip through the cracks and clutter up your inbox. Email filters are also <em>too</em> aggressive sometimes, filtering out legitimate messages. That means you’ll probably end up having to sift through all that spam&nbsp;anyway.</p>

<p>Setting up your own email filters is also time&#8209;consuming. And you’ll likely end up constantly adjusting them and still having spam slip&nbsp;through.</p>

<h3 id="5-rate-limiting-only-works-for-repeat offenders" class="wp-block-heading">5. Rate limiting: Only works for repeat&nbsp;offenders</h3>

<p>Rate limiting is used to control the number of form submissions from a single IP address within a specified timeframe. This means that a single bot can’t be used to spam your&nbsp;form.</p>

<p>This is useful for curbing form abuse, but the limitations are clear. It primarily targets spambots that attack your site from the same IP multiple times. But many spammers distribute their attacks across a network of bots or rotate their IP addresses frequently. Rate limiting is ineffective against spam attacks like&nbsp;this.</p>

<h3 class="wp-block-heading">6. Time&#8209;based form submissions: For very basic&nbsp;bots</h3>

<p>Time&#8209;based form submission checks target bots that fill out and submit forms too quickly. Unlike normal users who need to spend at least a minute filling out a form, bots do it almost instantly. Just set a minimum time limit, and if a form is completed too quickly, mark it as&nbsp;spam.</p>

<p>Most spammers have long wised up to this method, however. Advanced bots mimic human behavior. So, this ends up being a basic way of blocking spam that allows a lot of bots to slip through&nbsp;anyway.</p>

<h2 id="why-akismet-is-the-perfect-alternative-to captcha" class="wp-block-heading">Why Akismet is the perfect alternative to&nbsp;CAPTCHA</h2>

<p>As you can see, other ways to stop spam are often lacking. They either damage the user experience, filter out mail too aggressively, or leave several vulnerabilities open for spam to slip&nbsp;through.</p>


<p>But Akismet is different. It’s a seamless, intelligent solution that works quietly in the background. As it’s always learning and growing, false positives are rare while most spam is successfully filtered out. As if you need more convincing, here’s why Akismet is the perfect choice to replace CAPTCHA in 2024:&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="smart-and-adaptive-spam protection" class="wp-block-heading">Smart and adaptive spam&nbsp;protection</h3>

<p>As you’ve likely noticed, machine learning and AI have recently become much more powerful. Akismet has long used machine learning to power its anti&#8209;spam functionality, and these systems are now powerful enough to boast a 99.99% accuracy with over <a href="https://akismet.com/blog/akismet-five-hundred-billion-with-a-b-spam/">500 billion pieces of spam&nbsp;blocked</a>.</p>

<p>Spammers are always evolving, and stagnant methods of stopping them like rate limiting and honeypots will only work for so long. Akismet is different because it’s also adapting in real&#8209;time with every piece of spam successfully blocked. As new spam tactics emerge, Akismet will learn and grow with&nbsp;them.</p>

<p>Akismet’s usage of AI also means that it doesn’t just recognize known spam patterns — it also identifies subtle signs of spam in real&#8209;time. It blocks new spam tactics before they even get out of the&nbsp;gate.</p>

<h3 id="seamless-user experience" class="wp-block-heading">Seamless user&nbsp;experience</h3>

<p>One of Akismet’s standout features is its ability to provide a seamless user experience, something that CAPTCHA fails to deliver. There are no tedious puzzles to solve with Akismet — your visitors won’t even know it’s&nbsp;installed!</p>

<p>Akismet operates entirely behind the scenes and requires no extra work from users. This makes it more accessible than CAPTCHA as well as simply less&nbsp;intrusive.</p>

<p>People are more likely to complete your forms since they don’t have to deal with unnecessary hurdles. And that means higher conversion rates&nbsp;overall.</p>

<h3 id="easy-integration-with-any website" class="wp-block-heading">Easy integration with any&nbsp;website</h3>

<p>Another reason Akismet is the perfect alternative to CAPTCHA is how easily it integrates with virtually any website. Akismet may be famous as a <a href="https://akismet.com/wordpress/">WordPress plugin</a>, but it can be used anywhere. Just connect your site to the API and you have spam&nbsp;protection.</p>

<p>For WordPress users, Akismet integration is particularly simple, as the plugin comes pre&#8209;installed and is free for personal, non&#8209;commercial&nbsp;blogs.</p>

<p>Otherwise, there are plenty of <a href="https://akismet.com/developers/plugins-and-libraries/">Akismet plugins</a> so you can just as easily get it running on platforms like Drupal or use Ruby, Python, JavaScript, or another framework to install it. You can also build your own&nbsp;application.</p>


<h3 id="set-it-and-forget-it-technology" class="wp-block-heading">Set-it-and-forget-it technology</h3>


<p>What makes Akismet really stand out is its hands&#8209;off nature. Once Akismet is integrated into your website, there’s no need to constantly monitor and tweak your spam settings. The machine learning technology behind it does all that for&nbsp;you.</p>

<p>Everything is taken care of automatically and behind the scenes. Spam gets filtered and blocked with no manual intervention necessary. Thanks to the 99.99% accuracy rate, you don’t need to constantly monitor your spam&nbsp;folder.</p>

<p>As Akismet’s AI&#8209;powered engine continues to learn and adapt, every spam submission that gets blocked only makes it more&nbsp;effective.</p>

<h3 id="accessibility-and inclusivity" class="wp-block-heading">Accessibility and&nbsp;inclusivity</h3>

<p>CAPTCHA causes difficulties for people with disabilities, who make up a significant portion of online users. Being excluded is frustrating and alienating, and they’ll likely never come back to your&nbsp;site.</p>

<p>When you eliminate the need for CAPTCHA by using Akismet, you make your website much more welcoming and accessible. Since it works invisibly in the background, no one needs to worry about being locked out of parts of your&nbsp;site.</p>


<p>Still on the fence? Learn <a href="https://akismet.com/blog/convertkit-customerstory/">how ConvertKit leverages Akismet</a> to protect their users from spam while maximizing conversions.&nbsp;</p>


<h2 id="how-to-integrate-akismet-on-your website" class="wp-block-heading">How to integrate Akismet on your&nbsp;website</h2>

<p>Getting Akismet on your website is a straightforward process, especially if you use WordPress. Even if not, there are still plenty of libraries and third&#8209;party plugins you can use depending on your framework and&nbsp;platform.</p>

<p>The best part of Akismet is that it’s free for personal, non&#8209;commercial sites. For commercial sites, plans are straightforward and&nbsp;affordable.</p>

<p>A few steps is all it takes to protect your site from spam forever. Let’s go over the WordPress&#8209;specific steps&nbsp;first.</p>

<h3 id="step-1-install-and-activate akismet" class="wp-block-heading">Step 1: Install and activate&nbsp;Akismet</h3>

<p>If your website is built on WordPress, installing Akismet just takes a few steps. In fact, it may already be there, since most WordPress sites come with Akismet pre&#8209;installed. You just need to activate&nbsp;it.</p>

<p>To check if Akismet is installed, log in to your WordPress dashboard and check the <strong>Plugins → Installed Plugins</strong> page from the menu on the left. If Akismet is there, just click&nbsp;<strong>Activate</strong>.</p>


<img width="1223" height="534" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image.png" alt="WordPress Installed Plugins page, showing Akismet at the top" class="wp-image-284202" />


<p>If Akismet isn’t installed yet, you can get it through <strong>Plugins → Add New Plugin</strong>. Search for Akismet and click <strong>Install</strong>, then&nbsp;<strong>Activate</strong>.</p>


<img width="1207" height="525" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-1.png" alt="Akismet plugin listing in the WordPress.org directory" class="wp-image-284204" />


<h3 id="step-2-obtain-an-api key" class="wp-block-heading">Step 2: Obtain an API&nbsp;key</h3>

<p>To use Akismet, even the free version, you’ll need to obtain an API key. You can get one from the <a href="https://akismet.com/pricing/">pricing page</a>, where you’ll select the appropriate plan. Just sign up for an account, and you’ll receive an API&nbsp;key.</p>


<img width="1205" height="654" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-2.png" alt="three Akismet pricing plans: personal, pro, and business, with features included in each one" class="wp-image-284205" />


<p>Back at the WordPress dashboard, head over to <strong>Settings → Akismet Anti&#8209;spam</strong> and click <strong>Manually enter an API key</strong>. Paste it in and you’re good to&nbsp;go.</p>


<img width="1220" height="620" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/image-3.png" alt="API key field on Akismet dashboard" class="wp-image-284206" />


<p>Once Akismet is installed, you’ll find the <strong>Settings</strong> screen on the same page. Here, you can configure how the plugin will handle spam. That’s it. It will start working right&nbsp;away.</p>

<h3 class="wp-block-heading">How to integrate Akismet on non&#8209;WordPress&nbsp;sites</h3>

<p>For non&#8209;WordPress sites, the process may be a little trickier. Check our <a href="https://akismet.com/developers/getting-started/">Getting Started guide</a> for the full&nbsp;details.</p>

<p>Depending on the platform you use and the framework your website is built on, there may be a plugin or library available that you can install. For example, there are a bunch of Akismet libraries for PHP, Python, .NET, and&nbsp;more.</p>

<p>If that doesn’t work, Akismet provides full documentation on how to <a href="https://akismet.com/developers/detailed-docs/building-your-application/">connect to the API</a>&nbsp;yourself.</p>


<p>Whatever you use, Akismet aims to make the process as easy as possible. <a href="https://akismet.com/pricing/">Get an API key today</a> and see for yourself what a difference it makes.&nbsp;</p>


<h2 id="frequently-asked questions" class="wp-block-heading">Frequently asked&nbsp;questions</h2>


<p>Now that we’ve covered the different ways to prevent contact form spam without relying on CAPTCHA, you might still have some unanswered questions. Let’s explore a few common questions people have on the subject.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="what-is captcha" class="wp-block-heading">What is&nbsp;CAPTCHA?</h3>

<p>CAPTCHA is a security tool used to identify humans from automated bots. Usually, CAPTCHA requires you to complete tasks like identifying distorted text, selecting what parts of an image contain a certain object, or even more complicated puzzles. While this is usually effective, CAPTCHA often frustrates users and drives them&nbsp;away.</p>

<h3 id="is-it-possible-to-prevent-spam-without captcha" class="wp-block-heading">Is it possible to prevent spam without&nbsp;CAPTCHA?</h3>

<p>It’s entirely possible to prevent spam without CAPTCHA. While methods like honeypots, email filtering, and rate limiting may not be as reliable, advances in machine learning have changed everything. AI&#8209;powered anti&#8209;spam is now almost 100% effective, and tools like Akismet prove themselves as superior CAPTCHA&nbsp;alternatives.</p>

<h3 id="what-is akismet" class="wp-block-heading">What is&nbsp;Akismet?</h3>


<p>Akismet is a powerful anti-spam service that uses advanced AI and machine learning to detect and filter out spam. Your contact forms, comments, and other submissions are fully protected. It uses machine learning to analyze vast sets of data — currently over 500 billion pieces of spam — and effectively stop 99.99% of spam from reaching your inbox.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="why-is-akismet-the-best-alternative-to captcha" class="wp-block-heading">Why is Akismet the best alternative to&nbsp;CAPTCHA?</h3>

<p>Akismet is the best alternative to CAPTCHA because it offers strong spam protection without compromising user experience or accessibility. Unlike CAPTCHA, which is slow and frustrating, Akismet works entirely behind the scenes. Its AI&#8209;backed, adaptive technology ensures that your site is protected against evolving spam tactics,&nbsp;too.</p>

<h3 id="where-can-i-learn-more-about akismet" class="wp-block-heading">Where can I learn more about&nbsp;Akismet?</h3>

<p>To learn more about Akismet, visit the <a href="https://akismet.com/">official Akismet website</a>. There, you can explore its features, sign up for an API key, and access detailed documentation on how to integrate Akismet into your&nbsp;website.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 09 Oct 2024 13:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Jen Swisher";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:22;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:98:"Do The Woo Community: Woo Innovations in Order and Payment Processing with James, Beka and Patrick";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85992";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:96:"https://dothewoo.io/woo-innovations-in-order-and-payment-processing-with-james-beka-and-patrick/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:52771:"Episode Transcript
<div class="wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Hello, I&#8217;m James Kemp. I&#8217;m from WooCommerce, and we&#8217;re going to use this time to talk a bit about what we&#8217;re working on at WooCommerce behind the scenes that maybe you, the community, don&#8217;t generally get to hear about. So I am joined today by Beka from KestrelWP and Patrick from Mindsize. We&#8217;re all collectively working on a project together centered around order management, and we&#8217;ll dive into that shortly. But first of all, I think it would be useful to introduce yourselves. Beka, if you want to go first.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, sure thing. It&#8217;s great to see both of you again, James and Patrick. For those of you maybe new to the Woo space, I&#8217;m Beka Rice. I work at Kestrel, formerly one of the partners at SkyVerge. I&#8217;ve worked with WooCommerce since version 1.5 or 1.6, I think. So it&#8217;s been about a decade, actually a little over a decade of time with WooCommerce. I&#8217;ve built over 60 different plugins for WooCommerce as well as cross-platform apps for Woo and Shopify. So I&#8217;m very excited now to be working on a project to improve and revamp order management with James and Patrick. Patrick, I&#8217;ll turn it over to you.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />I&#8217;m Patrick Garman. I own and run Mindsize. I&#8217;ve been working with Mindsize since 2017, but I&#8217;ve been working with Woo since probably the same era as Beka, maybe slightly earlier. I feel like it was around version 1.2 or 1.4, right after the fork that we don&#8217;t talk about. We work on high-performance, high-scale applications, and a lot of WooCommerce is the tool we use when we need to really customize an e-commerce store to fit our needs.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />What&#8217;s the first version of WooCommerce? WooCommerce 1.0?</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />That&#8217;s a gray area.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I think they did call it 1.0 right after the fork, and there were quickly a lot of patch releases. I remember the first couple of minor releases were within months of the WooCommerce launch, so it moved pretty quickly. Version 1.4 would&#8217;ve probably been, I don&#8217;t know, maybe six months in at most. It was pretty quick in the beginning, and then we got to skip around a bit. Sometimes it jumped from 1.6 to 2.0 right away. Those were painful times, but yeah, pretty early on.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, I think I joined or started using WooCommerce after originally using the previous software in…</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />2000? I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a bad word to say Jigoshop.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />I don&#8217;t know if we’re allowed to say it. What happens if we say it three times?</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Let’s not test that, James.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />It was 2011 when I started using it. I didn&#8217;t take note of what the version number was back then.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, that would’ve been pretty early. It was like fall 2011, or early 2012, I want to say.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />My first plugin was in 2011, and it went on to CodeCanyon, so I must’ve been right on it somehow.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />I&#8217;m going to look it up right now. You’ve got me curious. Yeah, September 2011. So Woo is almost 13 years old. There we go. Okay, so we&#8217;ve all been doing this even longer than we thought—this is what age does to you.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, definitely a lot of expertise in the room around WooCommerce. I imagine WooCommerce wasn’t your first entry point into the web either. We’ve all got a lot of medals in the industry, which is awesome. That’s why it’s such a great group of people to work on the project we’re working on. For clarity for any listeners, Beka and Patrick are working in a consultation capacity at the moment. We&#8217;re in the very early stages of the project, doing a lot of work around deciding what it’s going to look like, how the data is structured, and a lot of work on design and how it’s going to be implemented into WooCommerce. That’s the context. I think we should start discussing what we’re actually working on.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />So maybe what if we outline the problem? I think over time, Patrick and I have seen a lot of different Woo store owners doing a lot of off-the-wall but cool things. And I think one of the things that we’ve seen over time—and obviously, Patrick, feel free to jump in, especially from a high-volume perspective—has been that fulfilling orders, and that timeline between the customer placing the order and the customer receiving their order, is the hardest thing for any e-commerce merchant to manage, right? There are hard things…</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Probably one of the most common things that they&#8217;re going to be in there doing as well.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Exactly right. That’s what you do all the time. You’re not always uploading product images or changing product listings, but the one thing you’re doing consistently is fulfilling orders. And it’s the hardest thing in e-commerce, even though inventory management is hard, there are a lot of hard things. Order fulfillment is definitely the most challenging thing for merchants to do. And I think historically in WooCommerce, that&#8217;s always been a bit challenging. When you look at the orders list, it’s not always clear if something’s paid for or not, if the charge has been authorized or captured, if the products have been packed, if they&#8217;ve been shipped, if they&#8217;re in transit but not yet delivered, or when the item is delivered. We only have this concept of order on hold, processing, or completed. So merchants have not had a granular view of that fulfillment process, and as Patrick can attest to this, the more your store scales up, the more important that granular view becomes. How many packages do I have yet to ship? How many labels am I going to need? What’s the throughput in my warehouse or shipping operation? So that was kind of what inspired the three of us working together on this—how do we solve that problem in WooCommerce, and what other related problems can we address at the same time for merchants who are fulfilling orders and struggling to understand the status of orders and how to fulfill them, and what steps are needed? Patrick, I don’t know if you have anything to add to that, but that was kind of the problem that inspired this project, and I think we can also talk about what we want to do about it.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Yeah, definitely. It has been a challenge. I know Beka and I have experienced a lot, like she said, and I think this project is most exciting because a lot of the community may think that we just build in a silo, like we’re going to build what we want and you guys will live with it. But in this case, with one of the hardest problems in Woo, we have the product side represented—building extensions, building products within Woo—the scalability side, the data architecture. We’re looking at every aspect of this to build a highly customizable, highly performant flow that can support all stores.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, and I think that’s probably the biggest challenge. One of the biggest challenges of WooCommerce in general is how customizable it is, and when you’re building something like we’re working on, you have to think about all the ways that this is also going to be extended in some way. But yeah, like you say, Beka, one of the issues with how orders are presented in WooCommerce at the moment is the merchant can land on that orders page and they don’t know what to do next. There’s no clear indication from that list of orders what the next action is for each one of those orders. It’s quite a complicated thing to tackle. Obviously, the order status comes into play, and we have tons of extensions that modify the order status and add all of these interim statuses that could apply to an order. So you might see currently orders that are marked with a custom status of &#8220;shipped,&#8221; for example, but that’s not indicative of the actual status of the order. Like you said, you don’t know if it’s been fully paid for, you don’t know what&#8217;s being shipped, you don’t know when it’s delivered. There are so many aspects that aren’t covered by just having one singular order status. So one of the first points that we discussed is breaking that order status out into essentially three statuses: where you’ve got the overall order status, a payment status, and a fulfillment status. But the challenge we faced is because of how extensible WooCommerce is, and how many plugins and implementations there are that modify or use the order status in some way, we don’t want to just rush in and change how that all works in one fell swoop. So the approach we’ve taken is actually to leave the order status as it is and focus primarily on the fulfillment status. With the goal of tackling that without impacting how people use the order status—other than maybe transitioning to our new fulfillment status if they’re using a custom fulfillment status within the order status system—see how that goes, then focus on the payment status side of things, and then we’re kind of in a better position to migrate people to start using those. We’ll roll it out in a way that they’re kind of independent of each other, but can potentially impact one another. So it’s quite a challenging task, and that’s just the status aspect of it. There’s more to it than that. I don’t know if you had anything to</p>



<p>add to that.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />No, I think it’s a great start. So definitely the fulfillment side of it. There’s obviously the payment side, as you mentioned, the payment statuses, but the fulfillment side is definitely the place where we can make the biggest impact for the largest number of merchants. Even though every merchant is going to take a payment, and not every merchant is going to have to ship something, the shipping side is definitely more painful right now. Being able to add a fulfillment status is going to make it much clearer where things are. And as you had mentioned, James, the clarity in terms of the data structure around that and also being backwards compatible is a big consideration. Right now, Woo has the concept of shipping line items, but that shipping line item doesn’t really represent a package or a shipment. It’s just a single line with an ID and a name, which can sometimes be very difficult to tie back to which rate created that line, for example. What it represents is more of a payment for a shipment and less so an actual package. So having a proper API to retrieve shipments, to add new shipments, is going to make courier integrations much better. The ability to have a standardized way of tracking information will be much better and will give developers a framework to be able to add all kinds of different shipments. While Core can handle, &#8220;I took the order and I shipped it to the customer,&#8221; in mind, we also have things like how would we handle RMAs or how would we handle sample packages or ways that this feature can be extended by plugin developers to add new functionality to the shipment concept. So I think it’s a pretty exciting thing for us to do: to have a better data standard around what represents a shipment, how that&#8217;s going to be tied to an order, and to the line item that represents how much that shipment costs, and how developers can take that and make some really, really wonderful things on top of it for all sorts of advanced or niche use cases.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />You mean I won’t have 15 processes because I use three different carriers that all did things completely differently?</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I think that’s the challenge right now. A lot of folks might be doing things directly in WooCommerce, or they might be using an ERP system. They might be going directly to their account with a specific shipment carrier, and there’s a lot of difficulty in doing that. A good example would be, I know a lot of merchants use both FedEx and USPS for different types of packages, and some of them might be using an ERP or a system that’s helping them in one place, but some of them are logging into both of those and copying and pasting tracking numbers from FedEx over to WooCommerce order notes or something. And that’s the broken process in my mind, and something that you’re going to do hopefully every day as a merchant, we should just be able to make a lot easier—and you should be able to do that right within WooCommerce as you’re looking at the order: &#8220;Hey, I’ve packed it, I’m ready to fulfill it.&#8221; I should be able to do that whole flow inside of my WooCommerce admin.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />For sure. So I think for a bird’s eye view of what we’re working on, which ultimately stems down to a fulfillment status, we’ve got the fulfillment status of an order, which we are looking at as either fulfilled, partially fulfilled, or unfulfilled. Those are the three core statuses that you could assign to an order. So in order to fulfill an order, you would need to create a shipment or a fulfillment, as Beka was describing. And on top of that, you might not want just one fulfillment for a single order; you might want to have multiple fulfillments shipped via different couriers, for example.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />And I think that piece there, James, is really key. I think a lot of folks who have used Woo have been frustrated with the fact that, &#8220;Well, I’m going to ship this order in multiple pieces, and I only have &#8216;processing&#8217; and &#8216;completed,&#8217; and my customer doesn’t get notifications for every shipment.&#8221; So that partial fulfillment concept is going to be a huge win for merchants who want to just ship things as fast as possible, even if that means multiple shipments, right? There are definitely bigger sellers who want to send more than one package, and this opens that capability up in WooCommerce in a very sane way, which I think is going to be very exciting. And to Patrick’s point about scalability and showing WooCommerce doing these really amazing things, it’s going to be a big win for those kinds of merchants.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />I was speaking to a merchant that has to do that quite often. They sell, I think they’re like a bedding store, but they also sell beds. So they have to ship massive items alongside a pillow. What they tended to do if someone ordered a bed, a mattress, and a pillow, they had to manually create another order with just the pillow, remove the pillow from the previous order, and all this kind of manual work they had to do behind the scenes just to be able to send two separate shipments and log it appropriately in whatever system they were using. So ultimately, what we need—and this is what we’re working on—is a data structure for shipments or fulfillments behind the scenes so that the data that belongs to a shipment is always the same, regardless of what kind of shipment it is, and it’s consistent. So third-party tools can integrate into it, and they can receive that data and integrate out of it as well.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I think let’s take that to a very practical example. So not only as a seller—let&#8217;s stick with this retailer that you were talking about—this is an excellent use case. So not only can this person now just fulfill each of those line items independently, with as many shipments as they need, all of that data is stored against the WooCommerce order, easily referenced, and in a structured way. Now we can expose that with a semantic API. Let’s say I build an email marketing app. Now I can get a webhook for a fulfillment being added to an order. First of all, that tells me maybe I should be sending an item-shipped email to users. Now I will know which items have been shipped and which things are in that package, as well as which line items, and by proxy, which products were in that order. So I can be sending these beautiful item-shipped emails as a good example. If there are other actions that need to happen as each item is fulfilled, now any external system that you&#8217;re using can tap into that information easily, because it’s not just going to be some random plugin that your app might not have integration with right now. It’s a core feature with part of the core API supporting it. And I think while it’s a really big deal to just support that workflow, I think we all know that the extensibility of Woo and the ability to use it with so many different tools and apps and services—that&#8217;s really the killer feature. Having that as part of core, I think, will be a big win for every app in the ecosystem, not just that fulfillment flow specifically on the site.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />For sure. And I think as a merchant, just being able to see—and this is kind of where we are at in the design explorations—as a merchant, being able to see the list of orders and then being able to see which orders have been fulfilled and which haven’t, but also which orders have been partially fulfilled but still need some sort of action. I think that&#8217;s a really important thing, and it makes that orders list much more useful than it is currently.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />We’re filling a giant gap in a number of areas. WooCommerce is often seen as this customizable, flexible e-commerce platform until you want to do backorders or B2B and other complex scenarios that core doesn’t enable well, but now it’ll just work out of the box. If you’re doing a wholesale order to your distributor of 100 mattresses, surely that doesn’t fit in a single tracking number. Maybe you only have 50, but they ordered 100. Now you ship 50, and you still have 50 to go. All these scenarios will just work out of the box.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />And to be fair, you could always build all your own custom code to do that in the past, which was the cool part about Woo, but now we’re giving people a framework that these customizations or more advanced pieces of functionality can fit into. That gives us a translation layer between Woo and apps and other plugins. Everyone having that common data store, to your point, Patrick, you can enable these really complex scenarios, but now ERP integrations, inventory integrations, or anything else that you have will have a standard way to interact with those workflows. I think that’s really going to be the exciting part of this. Even though these things may have been possible through custom code in the past, that little bit of standardization is going to go a long way towards facilitating other integrations, plugins, apps, and all kinds of features that can be built on top of this, no matter the use case, right?</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Yeah, it&#8217;ll be less work for me to build something that doesn’t feel like a bolt-on.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Exactly right! It will feel way more native, and other plugins will have the ability to understand where that data is going to be stored.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />It makes a ton of sense. Additionally to that, Patrick touched on it just then—we’ll be looking at integrating some form of shipment tracking into this, which is a feature that many have complained about missing from WooCommerce.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />I’m so excited about that change. I think it’s been such a gap. I</p>



<p>know it’s hard because WooCommerce is free, right? Let’s not forget that. And you can’t have a sustainable ecosystem if everything is just free in the core platform. But I think we’ve maybe felt for a while that shipment tracking was probably a bit of a miss or something that is going to cover 80-90% at least of people using the core platform. So I’m super excited to see Woo make that decision to start to put a core shipment tracking feature available in WooCommerce as a result of this. I think it’s going to be a huge value add. And to our previous point, it gives you a standardized way for other apps to understand how to access tracking numbers as part of a fulfillment.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, I’m hoping we can implement it in a way that means there can be versions of shipment tracking that expand upon the feature of whatever’s in core.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Well, there’s attaching a shipping number, and then there’s having real-time updates you send to the customer. There’s value that could be added. When’s the last time you heard someone say that the WooCommerce order thank-you page is good?</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I think there are opportunities for carrier-specific integrations to have shipment statuses. A good example: if I’m integrated with FedEx, the basic level of that is just getting the FedEx tracking number and URL and showing it in the orders page or emails. But what if I want to have live updates because FedEx has more granular statuses for a shipment? There’s “awaiting package,” “received,” “in transit,” “out for delivery.” I think pro versions or more advanced integrations could be polling FedEx or getting webhooks from FedEx for those delivery alerts, for example, to send even more emails to your customers. I think there are some really cool opportunities that can be built on this with more advanced functionality, but at least from a core sense, you can be supporting that basic concept of: “Hey, a fulfillment is sometimes going to need a tracking number associated with it.”</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah. It’s very exciting stuff. I think the other important thing to touch on is that not every order is going to need shipping, and that’s something we’re discussing quite a lot. How do we frame this functionality in a way that covers digital orders and virtual orders? I think &#8220;fulfillment&#8221; makes sense as a term for covering all of those different use cases. We’ve discussed the opportunity of also fulfilling downloadable orders and virtual orders, but also having it possible to dictate—probably through code—when an order is fulfilled. So if you’re selling a membership (and Beka, I think you touched on this before), you might not want to fulfill that order, or a course, for example, you might not want to fulfill it until they finish the course. So there would be a way to fulfill orders outside of just shipping an item or shipping all of the line items.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I think one of the things that’s exciting about Woo in general is that you have this long tail of use cases that can come out of every feature in these surprising and unexpected but very cool ways. That’s the beauty, I think, of open source—people will use things in ways you’ve never imagined. We tried to take that concept with fulfillment. Okay, the core reason to have a fulfillment is probably a shipment, but let’s dream a little bigger. What else could people do with this feature? I think as we all discussed this and talked to a lot of merchants, virtual goods like downloads, services, etc. may have the concept of fulfillment. You might want to skip that and not use fulfillments as a merchant, but you might want to—let’s say I sell content writing services and that’s a virtual item. I’m not going to ship anything to someone for content writing, but what I might do is say, &#8220;Hey, when I&#8217;m done, the first draft is up. Here’s my fulfillment—it’s my Google Doc,&#8221; and I send you the Google Doc link. Well, what are the parallels? What if we extract the idea and look for what&#8217;s core between a package and a Google Doc? They’ll have a name, they’ll have a URL, and they’ll have a status. So as a service provider, I could add a fulfillment with the Google Doc name and the Google Doc URL, and that’s my fulfillment to you. While I might not use that use case, I might use it differently. What we tried to do is think: what are other ways this feature can apply to different types of fulfilling a good or service, even if it&#8217;s not a package, if it&#8217;s a digital fulfillment or a service fulfillment, and how can we support that? Which things could be core for virtual sellers? If they&#8217;re not core, how do we facilitate extensibility and extensions of that? Core may not, let&#8217;s say, have a delivery date attached to fulfillment, but we need to make sure it&#8217;s possible to do such a thing, whether that&#8217;s enabling a semantic structured form of metadata. There are ways that we can do that and be mindful of that extensibility, which I think is an exciting part of this.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Even touching on what you said before about the fulfillment statuses—not the overall fulfillment status of an order, but the status of a shipment or a shipment status—just having a status per shipment is something we could do via metadata in some way, or maybe it’s a permanent field that belongs to a shipment. But yeah, I think having this structured data of shipments is going to be massively useful in any number of use cases.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />I mean, especially with the number of digital goods sellers that WooCommerce has. I think that’s always been one of the strengths of Woo—it’s always been fantastic for virtual goods, whether downloadable, services, courses, memberships, all kinds of different things that I think will be very exciting to see how people use this feature. We’ve definitely tried to design it in mind that while it will primarily be used for shipments and packages, we have a ton of other exciting use cases that it could be brought to bear for.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />And I think speaking of design, the key area that we’ve been focused on at the moment is how the merchant can come into the orders list and create a fulfillment from that page so they don’t have to click through to the single order page. They can create fulfillments from the orders list and complete that process a lot more quickly than they could right now, which is actually quite a challenge we’ve found in terms of designing this in its most simple form without adding too many buttons or things calling for your attention. So yeah, I think the design aspect of this is very challenging. We’ve got that screen to focus on. We’ve got, once they create a shipment or a fulfillment, how does that look? What does that screen look like? And then also we’ve got the edit order screen—what does it look like when you create a fulfillment from that screen? So we’re definitely in the very early stages in terms of design for this, and we’re focusing on how to make that experience as simple as possible, while also covering all of these different bases that we’ve talked about and all these different use cases.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Not to mention as fast as possible.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yes.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />We spent a fair amount of time in that one design call just talking about, &#8220;This page needs to be fast. You should not sit here and wait five seconds for this order to load after waiting 10 seconds for the orders list to load. We&#8217;re going to make it fast.&#8221;</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, exactly. That’s one of the key things. We want the merchant to be able to create and fulfill orders as quickly as possible because their time is important, and that is more than likely one of the most time-consuming things they have to do. And Patrick, I don’t know whether, but I imagine a lot of merchants are currently fulfilling orders via some other means.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Especially as stores grow, they&#8217;ll often have warehouses. Warehouses aren&#8217;t going to open up WooCommerce admin to fulfill an order, at least in a lot of cases they aren’t. So integrating these fulfillments into other platforms and having that ability will definitely be a thing. But customer service may need to look up the fulfillment that was fulfilled from the warehouse, and being able to integrate all these things or make it possible for the warehouse that fulfilled the order in some other platform to sync back to WooCommerce, which is integrated into your customer service tooling. In the little sidebar of your HelpScout or Zendesk, wherever you&#8217;ve got your order and your fulfillments, everything will be right there, all powered by one consistent data model.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />And that’s the goal. So yeah, in terms of a timeline for this, we’re very much in the design phase. We’ve scoped out how we ideally want this to look and work. There’s definitely still more discussion around specifics, particularly around what the data structure is going to look like and how we actually embed that into WooCommerce itself. I would hope next year is when we could be rolling this out in some form, but I definitely want to get feedback early and often on what we’re working on. Right now, it’s hard to find somewhere where you can do that. I think as a company, we use GitHub discussions quite a lot for more officially collecting feedback from the developer community. I use Twitter a lot, but that’s a very unofficial way of doing it—or X, as they call it now. So I don’t know if you guys have thoughts on how we can get more community involvement in this. And also, I&#8217;m conscious that we don’t want to have the classic saying of too many cooks. I imagine there’s a lot of design-based input that we could get on this in terms of visual design or even database</p>



<p>design, and there are probably a lot of differing opinions on how best to approach it. But I do feel like GitHub discussions has a technical barrier. I think the people who comment there are more than likely developers or part of some sort of agency, and less likely merchants.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I would say I don’t feel like that’s a terrible thing, though, because if you’re an agency or a builder, you are oftentimes supporting the merchant and understanding their needs and use cases. Sometimes it’s helpful to have that sense of technical creativity to understand what are the possible ways we could solve this, or what is possible now and what are the gaps. I definitely welcome that side of the input. I do think it’s important, though, to hear the pain in the merchant’s own words and also to get very close to what expectations they have of the experience. Ultimately, you need each of those personas or types of people to make a really wonderful product because they’re all going to be users of the product. Even if the agency, developer, or plugin developer isn’t the person who&#8217;s in there using the UX every day—let’s say from my perspective as a plugin developer—I’m the one trying to build something on top of it. If I hate it, I’m just not going to use it. So we need all of those people to be excited to adopt what we’re doing. It’s got to be a carrot; it’s got to be a no-brainer. It’s got to be: why would I do this my own way? Why would I build my own data structure for a fulfillment when what&#8217;s in core works really wonderfully for me? I’ve had a lot of success in the past using customer councils. I think Woo has experimented with such a thing. I think it would be great to do a rotation of agencies in the space, of merchants who are actively using it, who want to see improvements in the software. I think Patrick and I are definitely in some ways fitting that persona in different ways—Patrick being on the agency side, working with high-volume sites, and myself being in the plugin developer space, trying to build things on top of WooCommerce and supporting the merchant store using these customizations and plugins. I would love to see a variety of voices involved in contributing to that. I agree with you, James—you can get inundated with feedback that’s not super valuable. So I think it’s having a small group of folks, and it’s also great if it’s not always the same people. If it rotates maybe every six months, I find that works best.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />There are so many bike sheds for us to debate what color to paint.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />Woo’s had a hard time getting store feedback. Think of a big business—they go out, they’re like, &#8220;Hey, web developer, I need you to build my store. I don’t care what platform it’s on.&#8221; Some of them… So how do you get their feedback from the agency side? What I’ve tried to do, and I recommend many people do, is there are people like James, Ken, and others in the Woo space who want to talk to stores. I can certainly take the store’s feedback and go bring it to James and be like, &#8220;Hey, here’s what the store said.&#8221; But I just outright introduce the store owner to James, to Ken, to these other people within Woo who can have their own calls and ask their own questions. How you word a question and which way you ask will impact the answer. I’ve got multiple projects right now where we ask the client a question in a way that makes sense to us. They give us an answer that makes sense for the question that made sense to them, but the answer was wrong. So getting these different perspectives from different people is the best way to build a good product—lots of opinions from different perspectives, from different use cases. Spam James with all your store owner introductions.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Just send it all to me. Actually, Patrick, I think it was you that introduced me to the bedding store that I spoke to previously.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />That was one of them.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah. I think that’s quite valuable—to have that kind of interaction, that direct interaction with the merchant and really dig into how they use the system.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />I mean, it makes you look good as the agency: &#8220;Hey, I’m going to introduce you to the head of product at Woo who’s going to listen to your feedback,&#8221; which isn’t me. Some people might think introducing your store owner to someone else is going to take away from what you’re doing. It’s the opposite.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />Yeah, it’s definitely a useful thing to do. I think even the setup we’ve got here of WooCommerce working directly with you guys from different backgrounds and different perspectives is massively valuable. I think it takes away the too-many-cooks scenario where we’re aligned on what the goal is. Myself, coming from a plugin developer background, I’m kind of consciously aware of how would I want to extend this if I was building a product on top of this. So I think that’s really useful. Beka, you were going to say something. I don’t know if you remember what it was.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />I do. One thing I did want to call out: we talked a lot about fulfillments in this conversation. I think it’s the first step and most exciting. The plan is to continue building in this line. The other thing we should spend a little bit of time on is talking about payments. One of my complaints about Woo for a long time has been the way payments are represented. I’ve built around two dozen payment integrations with WooCommerce as part of SkyVerge. We have a couple at Kestrel as well that are payment integrations. One of the really challenging things has been that a payment is just a metadata blob attached to an order right now, and that’s not always very semantic or easy to work with. If an email wants to show the card type and last four digits that were used on the order, how does it do that? Well, it has to know which meta keys to look for from all these various payment gateways. That’s not great. So the other part would be what we can do on the fulfillment side, we can kind of do a parallel on the payment side, which is attaching transaction objects to an order. Each transaction would represent a payment. So number one, that’s cool for data standardization—a payment can be represented with the type, the payment name, the payment method that was used, some basic information about that payment method—and that’s exciting for all the integrations that Patrick’s pointed out on the order thank-you page, like, &#8220;Hey, we could just display this information; it’s now going to be available in the API,&#8221; and that’s pretty cool. But that also opens up the possibility for a couple of pain points for big merchants, which would be partial payments, deposits, multiple payments, multiple captures per order against different line items. There are a lot of more advanced workflows around payment processing that are difficult in WooCommerce, or you&#8217;ve got to go bespoke and build everything yourself with all your own custom code. There’s no standardization to allow for translation between apps and plugins. While fulfillments are one area, I just want to make sure people understand payments is another area where we see this need, and we can take the lessons learned from shipments and fulfillments and translate those lessons over to transactions as well, which I think will be a very exciting thing. I know Patrick, you&#8217;ve seen a lot of really weird use cases around payments. If there&#8217;s anything you want to add there that we can facilitate, just to call out that there&#8217;s some cool stuff coming there too next year once the fulfillment project can be kicked out the door.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />I’ve been screaming from the rooftops for years about let’s separate the order, payments, and shipments/fulfillments. There are so many scenarios. As businesses get bigger, they add more process. Enterprise isn&#8217;t millions more orders; it&#8217;s a lot more red tape and process around everything they do. So having the ability to separate these things out, having bespoke objects for a payment, for a fulfillment, and you could have an entire workflow in your store. I&#8217;m selling a website. The first fulfillment could be sending off a contract through DocuSign that includes a payment afterwards of a deposit. Then the second fulfillment is a logo, and then a third fulfillment is the pages, the content. All of these things could just fit in a native data structure. You wouldn’t think, &#8220;I’m going to sell a website out of WooCommerce,&#8221; but you could! Multiple payments, multiple fulfillments of digital and physical things—that’s all possible.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yeah, I&#8217;ll give you an example that wasn&#8217;t even enterprise-level but was similar. I bought some swag from a Woo store. They&#8217;re called Scout Books—they do notebooks with custom printing, and they use their Woo orders as invoices and to pay a deposit. They can either use two separate orders, or you have to do a fee line item and then discount the main line item. But again, you have to have two separate payments, and that&#8217;s a customization. So there&#8217;s a lot of weirdness to that in Woo, and while it&#8217;s supposed to be the most flexible e-commerce system on the planet, let&#8217;s make it easier for developers to enable such a thing. Even if we don&#8217;t have to facilitate that in the core plugin, we should at least have the on-ramps for plugins to be able to do this in a sane and semantic way. So I&#8217;m very excited for that potential because I think multiple payments against a single order will open up a ton of really cool use cases around upsells and cross-sells, post-purchase additions, like a thank-you page order bump. These are all</p>



<p>things that we could make so much easier for plugin developers with that as well. Fulfillment is one piece of it, but then actually accepting the payments against the same order object is the other piece.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />That&#8217;s like I said earlier: we go from &#8220;we can do it&#8221;—all of that you described is possible…</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />But it&#8217;s ugly.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />We can do it well.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />Yes, it&#8217;s ugly now, and that&#8217;s the thing that I will be so excited to fix.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />It’ll be sustainable, scalable, and performant—just all of that.</p>



<p><strong>James:</strong><br />And I think on top of the transactions entity being just payments, it can also be refunds, fees, disputes—all of that stuff can be within the same database, and that alone will make reporting easier as well. I think that&#8217;s the more challenging side of the two entities that we&#8217;ve discussed because once you get into those grounds, you&#8217;re then affecting how the overall order status works and the need for using it at all. Whereas I think with shipments, it&#8217;s kind of an optional thing. You could either utilize that, but your overall experience, unless you&#8217;re using it, would remain much the same. But with payments, every order has a payment—there’s no way to not use that. So it&#8217;s definitely a challenging thing.</p>



<p><strong>Patrick:</strong><br />There’s a way to do it though—to not scare everyone into thinking there’s going to be this huge breaking change in WooCommerce coming. You could have a payment gateway that just marks the order as paid, like it does today, and it just marks the order paid without the data. So there’s going to be a path.</p>



<p><strong>Beka:</strong><br />And I think, to tie onto that, Patrick, I think as someone who has built both plugins and apps consuming the Woo API, I do want to call that out—that’s definitely part of the path that we&#8217;ve talked about: making sure that if you&#8217;re an API consumer right now and let&#8217;s say you might even be inferring financial and fulfillment statuses depending on whether the order is on hold, processing, or completed, or has a &#8220;date paid&#8221; property or not, you might have some work in your app right now that&#8217;s even circumventing these problems. One of the things we&#8217;ve discussed is not making specific breaking changes to the existing version of the API, but allowing you to upgrade to a new version of the API. Now you&#8217;ll have discrete properties and data objects for each of these things. The backwards compatibility aspect has been a big part of the discussion. It’s certainly a big project, and that&#8217;s why transactions would come after fulfillments, but there is a path to adding these things in a way that is not going to create breaking changes for stores, API consumers, or plugin developers. It would just behoove you as an app or plugin developer to adopt them because it’ll let you do much better things, and it will let you remove probably some of your internal logic that you&#8217;ve had to maintain. I think it’ll just be the smart decision to make the updates to adopt this once it’s out there, but definitely not something that would pull the rug out from underneath you.</p>
